Tip for Newbies as well as experts

I wasn't referring to you Jayanth. It's a widely held notion that everyone should play for as long as possible, as that results in more practice. My opinion was 'more practice' vs. 'quality pratice'. There are a fair number of people who know what they do (such as yourself). And then there is the vast majority which is clueless, most of them newbies, some of them having played for years.

If you hit the gym you are probably working your forearms (flexors and extensors). You are clearly on the safer side. The newbies blindly ape every thing the seniors do, in any sport (you can spot that in your gym even!). Guitar playing is nothing different. That's the crux of the problem. My point was to dissaude the fresher from sticking on to his guitar for extended periods.

Raj

 

See Raj.. i obviously do Quality Practice.. otherwise i would be in a Ditch by now.. the Point i'm trying to make is If you are fit, You can practice for 8 hours who cares. If you are not you cant thats it..

My cousin is a Doc.. And i take her advice before a lot of stuff. So i never take risks with life like this.. So its just that i know what i'm doing. I'm doing this just because i'm confident that i'm safe. And Will always be. If i would experience a problem, i know what to do..

 

Good for you Jayanth. Please note I am not contradicting your opinion.

I have sustained tendon injuries depite having worked out for the last 4 years. My upper arms measure 17.5 inches, with 10% bodyfat; any given season. My diet is as healthy as it could be. This is a sound indicator of how even a supposedly healthy fellow could run into injuries. Furthermore, my uncle is a leading Orthopaedic surgeon.

Tendon injuries are damaging to guitar players. Staying fit, working out, or whatever, leads to increase in muscle strength and endurance. If your muscle strength increases by 50%, your tendon strength increases only by 5% or so. RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury), the primary culprit, usually shows up in 2-6 years time.

Most guitarists don't realise they need to exercise common sense when practicing. Your tendons are doing the hard work for you when you're playing the guitar. Their recovery is critical. I've been hit by Tendonitis and Rotator Cuff injury (from heavy bench presses). They only showed up after 3 years. Fortunately after rehab I am kicking again, but the point remains that any newbie must limit his practice. I suppose you are around 19 and hence still are growing. This suggests injuries may not show up until the next couple of years since your tendons have the capacity to recuperate; as your body is still high in its growth phase. While it's entirely possible you may never sustain an injury, it's better to be safe than sorry. This is especially true in case of newbies who have little clue about such issues. I sincerely hope no person randomly concludes that long hours result in a better player. Do look up "RSI guitar" on Google and decide for yourself. If possible, also look up "Aaron Shearer", one of the best guitarists and how injuries ruined him and his career.

The reason I am suggesting all this is because you are a Mod here. Many newbies look up to you for help. If you are aware of these things perhaps you could guide them better. In my opinion it isn't wise to even remotely suggest that a player should pratice beyond what is required. You may become the best guitar player in the world, but a tendon injury could distruct everything. It could be disastrous.

Remember, an imbalance between rest and stress, tilts in favour of injuries.

Raj

 

Raj - First of all let me say that you have made a good point and the thread has been written in a real true professional manner.You could be technical writer anyday [ on your subject of interest].

Jayanth - I agree to what Raj has to say, and to what you say too. I dont put in long hours of practise because I play the guitar for myself. I dont want to become a professional any day in music. I am into IT and work for one of India's Biggest IT Companies.....so long hours are spent on the computers

Anybody wanting to be a professional guitarist may put in long hours of practise but i still think 8 hours or even 4 hours daily is just too much.

Regards,

DHiM

 

hey Raj , U do make sense, People do look upto Jayanth For Guitars i guess.....

 

Spending long hours in front on computer is as bad.. But for me. I have been under professional Supervision. So i hope i'm doing everything right.

Different people have different levels of self care and stamina. I have a reservoir full of it. So i tend to use most of it here. When it comes to taking care of myself, Honestly i have read lots of books and follow some methods. Some Arm exercises. Since i'm into sports, i have to undergo training everyday which is again under Professional supervision and who knows that i play guiatr and and what other stuff i do that may affect my body.. till today the only ways i've injured myself are by Bike Accidents. So it has nothin to do with my body. And i recoverd quite well.

@ raj.. i didnt take your point as a contradiction. I just wanted to say that you need not get scared if you are well built, and have a better health. You can do anything as long as its safe. I have suggested a lot of exercises thru PMs which will help you avoid injuries. I'm also going to post them in the new forum .. I have to edit that and i have exams.. Sorry guys..

I know i have a little responsibility.. i completely agree with Raj about the stuff he mentioned. But the way you mentioned is really scary..

 

I initiated this talk because one of the members complained of pain in the right bicep. It brought back some terrible memories. My paranoia emerges mostly from my experiences in the gym. Ask any gym veteran (an educated one) about shoulder subluxation or rotator cuff tear and you will hear him recoil in fear.

I just want everyone to be safe, and most importantly, well informed. I am a member of a couple of other guitar forums and such issues are taken very seriously there. If the Mods are educated, much of the problem is taken care of. I am positive many guitarists will encounter tendon injuries some or the other time. There is simply no way we can defeat this. The best we can do is to be wary, and alert ourselves. It is comforting to hold on to the idea that nothing can ever happen because we do 'this' and we don't do 'that'. I subscribed to the same school of thought 4 odd years ago (incidentally I too was 19 then). It just didn't occur to me how easily we can abuse our own bodies. I have read several books on injury onset and rehabilitation. In addition, I’ve visited a few leading Orthopaedic surgeons (Australia and India). These guys know their stuff. What they had to share left me shuddering. Injuries are far more common than we imagine. Worst of all, tendon injuries don’t show up for a while. In the initial stages most injuries are easy to heal, but since they show up only when damaged it results in a tragedy.

If you have an injury it heals because blood seals the wound and the curative process takes over. Unlike muscles, tendons do not have blood flowing through them. Hence any tendon injury could be severely debilitating; especially in the areas where they insert into bone cartilage. It could result in permanent damage. Software guys would know; CTS is feared for good reason.

Jayanth make sure any exercises you post here have been adopted from an Orthopaedic surgeon. The MBBS guys are good, but aren’t qualified to handle bone and muscle injuries. Don’t let a general practitioner diagnose your tendon injury. It could make things worse.

The joke here is that our physical therapists and sport trainers talk about knowing everything. It’s an absolute mockery that even our Indian cricket team has been hit by Rotator cuff injuries. We only started treating them last year; i.e. 2003. Our local trainers had no idea of what a Rotator Cuff is, so we brought in Andrew Leipus (Australian) to work on our bowlers. Talk about being better late than never.

Raj

 

hey raj ... i looked up RSI ON GOOGLE .... and it threw light on lotsaaa things i was totallyyy unaware of ......thnxxx for the info........ u a doc by any chance ???? n jay ... i'm waiting for u'r post on those exercises ,,, hope u';r exams get over sssssssoooooonnnn....

 

These exercises are only for the wrist and hand.. Its quite simple.. And secondly most of it suggested by my PERSONAL PHYSICAL TRAINER in College..

 

Natasia, I am no doctor. My family is full of doctors. 4 surgeons in the first circle itself. I am rather eccentric, so broke the rules and went into Management. Additionally, I am an avid fitness enthusiast and have near-expert knowledge of the human anatomy. This stems from my interest in bodybuilding. My alter ego didn't permit me to hold my silence on that one.

Jayanth, I was specifically referring to strengthening Tendons of the forearm. What perhaps your trainer suggests are regular wrist curls, reverse wrist curls etc. They don't help build Tendon strength, since these exercises primarily work the forearm muscles. One can always look up bodybuilding.com or google "forearm exercises" for these things. Very general instructions are required for those. The risk here is that they aren't useful for building tendon strength and may further tire your hands if you already are playing the guitar for lengthened periods.

Actually this is precisely where most physical trainers go for a toss. It comes as little surprise to me to see our sports teams perform so poorly even at the highest standards (be it hockey, football or cricket), and why so many of them are down with injuries so often. Blindly following routines outlined by coaches leaves us wasted. If at the topmost level they can be so irresponsible, how can one repose trust on college physical trainers? All they do is read some book and regurtitate the trash on us. I have actually seen that happen here at Delhi with two reputed physical trainers. I was dismayed when I found out one of them was employed by the IOA for training the national athletes. I can safely bet many of these trainers/coaches have little idea (if at all) on the scientific validity of these exercise routines. It also pays to verify your trainers credentials. I would't risk throwing my body in their hands.

A good exercise is to take a tennis ball in your palms, grip it and squeeze it tight. Very slowly release the pressure and and continue for 6-8 repetitions. Work on this once every day. Remember, more exercise is not always better (just as with your guitar practice). This exercise directly affects your tendon strength and you will notice the improvement in as little as 4 weeks. The tennis balls could be replaced with a thick towel folded into a ball. You perhaps won't require any other exercise for finger strength. But again, I caution you to read (and then read more) before you take my word for it. It's your body, so don't foolishly follow any suggestion laid out. Look up Grip Master on google. It's a finger strengthening device and works much the same way.

Read a lot on how the fingers function, what stresses and tires them (guitar-playing being only one of the activities) and how they recover. Further question yourself as to why any particular excercise should be done and finally work on your weaker points. This would help you understand why a particular exercise is good, and why many others are mere waste of time. Knowledge will always pay off, sooner or later. Want an easier way out? Go visit a qualified doctor. I'd prefer that anyday over Indian physical trainers. If they couldn't help Kumble and Srinath (will all that money), there's no guarantee I'd be safe.

Raj

 

Ok.. Let me get myself straight.. I do forearm exercises.. I'm a pace bowler. Opening bowler.. I have to undergo such training.. Anyways my coach was Mr. Jai Prakash the great cricketer. My physical trainer is the same guy who Trained Srinath and Kumble during their college cricket times.. He is considered the most expensive trainer and My college has him coming for our training.. He also has undergone training under the same person Andrew Leipus had his training inAustralia..

 

hey jay u like an all rounder ...studying,,,, playing cricket... playing the guitar.... wat else do ya do ..... can't even say sumthing like "jack of all master of none"... u seem to know an awwffuulll lot abt guitars.... .......

 

WHOA!!!!!!!! now dats 1 huge cartload of info, raj! n 2 think it all started coz i complained of pain in my right biscep! thanx, buddy!!! :beer:

 

I also Trek, Travel.. I'm into lots of sports and Music.. thats It. I work for a company who does Webdesigns and Posters and stuff.. I'm a confident Markting Guy.. And I do lot of reading.. health stuff and Otherwise.. I train everyday to keep myself fit. Thats it..

 

der goes mr.modest now... shit! damnd show-off, i swear!!!!

 

He he.. Straight Answer to Straight Question.. No MoDESTY HERE.. Maybe you were reffering to me ar Mr. Moderator..

 

hail mr. modesty .....:nw: :nw: :nw: ....... (hey...neo we definitely need a smiley winky emoticon...)

 

We have one use semi colon and a closed brace ; ) =

 

Srinath's career was impeded by a rotator cuff injury. Ditto - Anil Kumble. Every third day you read how Kumble has to squat at home because he's injured. In a way that's good news because he is highly incompetent and adds no value to an already clumsily performing team.

I am afraid I haven't heard of any Jai Prakash (famous cricketer/coach). Perhaps that is because I do not follow cricket. I even googled his name but did not find anything; actually left me more confused. If he is the same guy who coached Kumble and Srinath, you have got to be more wary. Both have suffered shoulder problems under his vigilance.

All I am trying to emphasize is that you should know your own body; trainer or no trainer. Indian trainers don't realise how often players injure themselves. They are very poorly informed about the human anatomy. If it were otherwise, we would not see so many injuries affect our top sportsmen. A bowlers action is completely unnatural. The human body wasn't designed to rotate the shoulder that way, and so often. It severely affects the entire shoulder joint. I cannot recollect any one single other action in our day to day lives that replicates a bowlers arm action. This suggests one has to be more cautious as the shoulder joints line of alignment is compromised. Rotator cuffs are rather weak links. It's ridiculously easy to abuse them. The rhomboids (minor and major), traps, latimus dorsi, lower back all act as stabilizing agents during a bowling action, making this the perfect recipe for injury.

I quote from rediff.com -

"Lillee said physiotherapist Max Pritzner, who is in Madras with graduates of the Australian Cricket Academy, told him that Srinath has been training hard after being treated for his rotator cuff injury. "He will bowl even better now," Srinath's mentor felt.

Prasad, Lillee said, did not suffer a rotator cuff injury, but the comparatively lesser affliction of tendonitis. However, most shoulder injuries have something to do with the rotator cuff, the paceman, who has suffered career-threatening injuries in his time, said."

The sad thing about this is that we take injuries very lightly, until hit. Once we are hit, we realise we should have paid more attention to our own bodies. Even I realised this only when I injured my shoulder. In my earlier days I didn't pay attention to anyone advising me about these things. I have trained in bodybuilding under Lee Priest (https://www.lee-priest.com/) and have even been featured in one of his coaching videos, shot in Australia. Priest is amongst the top 10 bodybuilders in the world. I outrageously (but rather courteously) told him that I could never be hit by injuries. All he did was smack me hard. I now realise what he meant. If only I'd listened.

Ask your coach to spell rotator cuff. If he can spell it, I rest my case.

Raj

 

Oh Man... I'm not a Veggie and have a good diet.. not like those two Veggies.. I dont think i'm going to worry about anything cause I really dont care. I have been thru a lot of such situations but i trust my coach and Trainer.. Jai Prakash is now a Refree at ICC level. If you dont know him , not my problem.. I've been this way for a long time.. I really dont care anymore.. Cause whats there in life without risk ha??