Thoughts on Tendulkar!

Discussion in 'The ChitChat Lounge' started by Ankur_Scorpio, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. Ankur_Scorpio

    Ankur_Scorpio New Member

    Wht do u guys feel about the recent happenings in Tendulkar's life?? I find it hard to ignore, i watched cricket because there was tendulkar. Without any doubt there are millions others who feel the same. He was recently booed in his own home ground, and now he is injured for another 8 weeks. Wonder how much of tendulkar we r going to be seeing?

    Its tough to imagine a game of Indian cricket without tendulkar in the line up. Would we still have the motivation to watch this game? May be indian sports fan's focus would, to a small extent at least, shift to other games?

    But for many of us cricket without Sachin would never be cricket again. There are many exciting cricketers but Lara's and Tendulkar's hardly any.

    A good article on this topic - http://www.hindustantimes.com/htcricket/14_1655842.htm
     
  2. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening

    OMG Discussion! No.



    What I'm wondering about is whether he is actually injured. If he is, why was he in the matches against South Africa, on the Tour to Pakistan and in the Test Matches against England. Is it just a soft excuse to get away from the flak that he's drawing for not performing?


    Now the latest team selection....the ideal person to take Sachin's place was Sourav Ganguly...India being short on experience would have had a sorely needed boost especially after the disappointing test series where they might lose the last match today (or win or draw though that wont be an achievement). Somehow, I've lost interest in cricket since the entire team seems to be built more upon people you want to keep out rather than people you want to keep in.
     
  3. esgallindeion

    esgallindeion Minstrel Knight

    Its a disgrace that any sportsman be booed and hissed at after a poor performance. Whats even worse is that it happened in his own home. Imagine yourself in his place. Did he ask to be called God? Now, why should he face this ire when people suddenly realize he's amortal as well?

    His shoulder injury was first detected during/after the Sri Lanka series and surely, he thought of it as another niggle which should be looked at when the cricket schedule becomes less hectic.

    Cricket for me, by no means, begins and ends with Sachin, but he was an integral part of my interest in the game. He still is. I'll still wait for the day when he raises his bat and silences all his critics. If not, well, my patience has been well earned by his long years of service to the team.

    @ bjr, replacing his with Sourav is a step in the backwards direction. Sachin =/= sourav that you can replace one with the other. Experience is there for the asking - Dravid, Harbhajan, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Agarkar (though I hope he doesn't play). For a player to be in the squad only because of experience is a stupid policy and I applaud the selectors for remaining progressive. Sachin's place in the ODI squad was never in question. His place in the test side, sadly, is. But before removing him, one must see who's going to replace him. In ganguly's case, it was neccessary because Yuvraj literally screamed his way in. In Sachin's case, it's not so obvious. Perhaps VVS or Kaif do deserve a look in. But with VVS, again, it would not be the "progressive" attitude that the new Dravid/Chappel regime is looking at. Kaif should be given adequate opportunities, as should Raina and if they scream their ways in, as did Yuvraj, and Sachin continues to fail, then I hope we don't have a repeat of the Sourav drama and Sachin gracefully bows out. If, on the other hand, Sachin shows glimpses of his return, after his injury is healed, I would prefer him over others, not because of the past but because an in-form Sachin is worth more than a Kaif/Raina anyday.

    I disagree that the fans would turn to other sports because of Sachin not playing anymore. Lately, many exciting cricketers have emerged and won many hearts. Cricket will still be the national religion and Sachin will always remain one of the greatest icons of the sport that our country produced.
     
  4. esgallindeion

    esgallindeion Minstrel Knight

    You don't stop playing cricket after returning from a major injury just because you feel a minor niggle in your shoulder. What you do is hope it doesn't worsen and tell yourself that you'll get it looked at when things quiten down (that is, during a long break). That's human nature.
     
  5. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening


    Progressing just for the sake of progression is foolishness as far as I am concerned. The main problem that I can see with the Dravid/Chappel regime is the lack of uniformity in the decisions that they make. A lot of them seem to be influenced more by personal agenda rather than team interest. Taking a step backwards seems to be fine when it suits their purpose.


    Take for example the debate regarding the opening slot in Pakistan. Dravid opened the innings against an excellent bowling attack albiet on a dead wicket and scored centuries and was lauded by everybody for leading from the front and taking the attack to the opposition. Fair and good. Well done, Rahul Dravid. However, it was definitely a step backwards because they took a decision which was in no way a solution for the future. If anyone argued that the intent was a backup plan B for the future, this would shatter their argument:

    What then influenced him to send in Irfan Pathan to open against a swinging ball(with which he has had problems even earlier) on a day that had 8 overs to be played and when your primary mission (logically) would have been to play out the overs without the loss of a wicket and start afresh later the next day? On a wicket which is probably dangerous to anyone except the wall that is Rahul Dravid, you send in a makeshift opener who is invaluable in the lower order having gotten you good, quick runs when you needed them there. The move indicates sheer bad captaincy and to be quite honest, hurt me though it might being a Dravid worshipper (seriously), I don't think the Dravid/Chappel era is going to take us places at least in the test arena. One-days wise, I laud them for taking the team a couple of notches higher. However, even there, my opinion is that the high is artificial and it is only in non-subcontinent conditions that we shall get to know if we're getting "there".



    The main problem I see with the selectors is not that they do not pick Ganguly over a Venugopal Rao but the general double standards in attitude that they've shown over the last six months. Things like Sourav Ganguly being asked to prove his fitness after an injury and then picking an injured V.R.V Singh for the squad and things so forth. There is little doubt that Ganguly, as of today, should not be a shoo-in into the team but a person who is in reasonably good form at the domestic level and has the experience that is useful under any circumstance does deserve to be a part of the 14 man squad which has names of consistent under-achievers such as Ajit Agarkar in them. Even picking a person who has been given more than his fair share of chances for scant results is a step backwards which seems to escape our selectors when they talk of reasons for not including Laxman or Sourav or Anil Kumble even.


    You forget that an in-form Sourav has often surpassed any other batsman in the world in his days. That he is doing well in the domestic circuit shows that he is hungry for another chance and I don't think anyone would disagree with my saying that a Sourav in full flow is a glorious sight. I wouldn't see it as a step backwards....especially given your stand to Sachin (which I think is very fair).



    Don't get me wrong here, I'm not particularly bothered because Sourav isn't playing.....it's just the hypocrisy of the selection and some of the moves does not convince me that the teams interests are the major concern here.



    bah, I would've typed in some more but Dravid just got out :'(
     
    jamhead likes this.
  6. sayanakaharry

    sayanakaharry Forum Leader

    exactly

    the thing that is disturbing is that the selectors and chappel have made it a sort of personal agenda that sourav stays out. on the one hand they are making noise about focussing on performance, on the other hand they dump the second most experienced player in the team. its wholy personal now, and that is showing in the interviews and stuff. no one wud have said anything if it was clear and above board.
     
  7. vishalj

    vishalj Banned

    Way overated. Its time for him to retire or he's gonna go the Ganguly way for sure.
     
  8. kaiser

    kaiser Bored

    i second vishal on that.
    he's finished. but i guess ppl cant face reality n feel tht he should hit a ton every time he shows up at the crease.....he shud retire n quit with grace or he'll get axed like gangu.

    but that booing thing..that was terrible....sad shit.
     
  9. vishalj

    vishalj Banned

    About the booing, (I wish I could have been there) I think he deserved it. People realise that if Ganguly can be dropped for bad performances then why can't Tendulkar?

    I think his shoulder injury is fake and he'll be back to play against Bangladesh or Kenya or something where he'll score a triple century and everyone will cry themselves hoarse saying, "The king is back." Horseshit.
     
    Guitar boy likes this.
  10. kaiser

    kaiser Bored

    u gotta grdge against the man and are as fanatical as those who love him..

    ---i cant bilivim subscribing to a cricket based thread.
     
  11. vishalj

    vishalj Banned

    Yes. Your point was..?
     
  12. esgallindeion

    esgallindeion Minstrel Knight

    Excuse me, but I find progressing until you attain excellence (in tests, it is to reach the benchmark set by Australia; and in odi, it is to win the world cup and play well consistently) is justified. And to say that India was just fine and did not need any progressing sounds a bit awkward to me.

    I don't see a lack of uniformity in decisions but rather trying a wide range of plans which I believe is the right way to go to ascertain what works out well and what does not. Do the ends justify the means? Maybe, maybe not. But I heartily support the Chappel/Dravid regime and hope they do not stop due to fan pressure.

    I don't see where the personal agenda comes in with Dravid. Perhaps you may want to clarify.

    They were forced into making such a decision. Dravid not opening would have meant throwing Ganguly to the wolves and if he failed, most of his supporters would blame dravid for letting him open and accuse him of "personal agenda". If he had sent any player, he would be accused of shying away from opening when he is the most technical player and should have gone instead.

    The decision was a backward step, definitely, but by the selectors, not Dravid. Not Chappel. I feel sorry for Ganguly, the way he has been treated by the selectors but to take out the ire of his mistreatment on Dravid or Tendulkar is not right.

    Common cricketing sense would have suggested sending in a nightwatchman. If Dravid had gotten out in the bad light, that would definitely have ended the game for India there and then with Sehwag and Tendulkar not fully fit.

    I believe the biggest thing that is wrong with Indian cricket is the selection process. Regionalism is deep rooted. So is politics. What we need is a total revamp and ex players taking a more active role.

    Same argument for keeping Sachin. An in form Sachin, if and when that comes true, will be devastating for any opposition considering now he will be supported by a (hopefully) in form Sehwag, Dhoni and Yuvraj.

    I have no problems with Sourav in the team. At one time he was my favourite player, same as Sachin and Dravid, but things haven't worked out for him. His batting was not the only reason why he was dropped. His fielding, attitude, everything recquires a change. And he must not just score consistently in domestic cricket, but someone must perform consistently bad in the Indian side. Some 2 or 3, rather I would say since kaif/Raina/VVS are all in front of Sourav as matters stand. Sad? maybe, for all those who believe in Sourav like I do in Sachin. But thats the state of affairs currently. Maybe Sachin's time will also come. But taking out your anger on him, becaus someone is annoyed at Sourav's treatment is harsh.

    I on the other hand will be deeply concerned if Sourav is introduced in the next squad inplace of Sachin, like you suggested, not because I have anything against him but because it would further emphasize the pathetic selection process.
     
  13. esgallindeion

    esgallindeion Minstrel Knight

    This is EXACTLY what I was trying to say. This I-hate-the-way-you-treated-ganguly-so-lets-treat-sachin-the-same-way. If what happened to Ganguly was wrong, Why for heaven's sake do you want the same to happen to another legend of the country?
     
  14. the_wizard

    the_wizard Omega == God

    hmm Tendulkar was the top scorer in the 4th innings...:RollLol:




    bah, i'll stay outta here....cricket is not my forte



    PS--wht do u guys think of Sehwag
     
  15. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

    Who is this Tandelkur fellow?
     
  16. vishalj

    vishalj Banned

    So you can do it to one and not the other? Ever wondered why the Indian team will never be the greatest?
     
  17. notty_lad

    notty_lad sudo undress

    Tendulkar has really become ENDulkar now .. seriously man .. His injury is all crap .. he's outta form .. n smart enuff to pull off from playin .. even ganguly should have used this technique of takin a break like sachin .. As da "famous" Hindi commentator said wen he was bowled by Asif's delivery "Sachin ne ghutne tek diye hai" .. which was highlighted all day in news .. n debates takin place .. n sms polls .. Kya sachin ne ghutne tek diye hai LMFAO! sms yes or no to 8888 hahahaha .. I think sachin should be given a world tour ticket now .. n should be removed from da team .. Look at Enland selectors .. Aussie selectors .. they don't care .. they dropped very experienced players .. n doin so well ..
     
  18. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening

    I never did say anything of the sort. There is a difference between progressing towards excellence and progressing for the heck of it. To talk of progression and at the the same time take a few steps backwards (the way I see it, we can of course differ on the issue) does not really mean much.

    It is not the wide range of plans that I have an issue with but the basic attitude



    meh, I was talking about the "Dravid/Chappel regime" and not Dravid. My bad.

    Ganguly had been drafted into the team in place of an opener and not as a middle order batsman...so by not letting him open the innings, the intent of the team management was pretty clear. Let Rahul Dravid open while we are temporarily inconvenienced by baggage in the middle order (Sourav Ganguly) so it is obvious that Sourav was never seen as a permanent fixture in the team even while he was being given a chance in the team. I don't think anyone can argue against this. What would this be termed if not personal agenda? If you tell me that Rahul being tried as an opener was a permanent solution, I don't think there can be a step more backward than that.


    Common cricketing sense also tells us that the person to send in as a nightwatchman is a grafter and not a stroke maker. Common cricketing sense also tells us that the nightwatchman should be such whose early loss would not affect that team much in terms of run-getters. Irfan has been a run-getter for India in the lower-order quite consistently and to put him to sword against the new ball in the 4th innings on a pitch which was not batsman friendly in the first place is terrible man-management. Of course, it didn't help their cause that he actually did get out and bring their mistake under the spotlight. Had he scored a fifty, our commentators would no doubt have made it out to be a stroke of genius and aggressive captaincy.



    We finally agree completely :beer:



    Whoever argued against the inclusion of Sachin in any squad? However, add to an in-form Sachin an in-form Sourav and you pretty much have the most potent opening pair in world cricket.


    I think you're under the impression that I am a Sourav fan wanting to keep Sachin out of the team as "revenge". I am not. I am barely even a Sourav fan. To keep Sachin out of the team would be sheer stupidity as far as I'm concerned. However, I suspect that he has been given a "role" to play by the management which needs to revamped. I think that's killing his game. To see his Test game is painful...no longer trying to score runs. The 4th innings of the mumbai test was a refreshing change.


    I don't think I've ever argued for Sourav being a permanent fixture in the current side. He just does not fit in. You seem to be missing the fact that Sachin would normally be playing as an opener. Now the person coming in to take his place (in all probability) is Gautam Gambhir unless they decide to open with Kaif or Laxman both of whom are not great at finding the singles early on (An art which Sourav is actually really good at even with his pathetic running). Now it's a question of weighing Sourav Ganguly against Gautam Gambhir and age not withstanding (since neither of them are permanent fixtures) I do believe Sourav would have the edge in a fair selection process.

    Agreed that his fielding, attitude, everything needs improvement but you can't really judge until you give him a chance.

    Also, I do believe his fielding and running are over-analyzed. His general ungaitliness actually makes him look worse than he really is.

    As for running between the wickets, he is extremely lazy (especially in the test matches) but at the same time a good judge of a run. The one person whose running between the wickets really needs a good working over is Rahul Dravid who is quick but shockingly bad at judging singles and twos. He's also pretty casual with his bat being in the air even after being dismissed more than once because of sheer laziness in terms of bat grounding.



    I dunno, mate. I've put my line of thought on the table with this entire post. I suppose we can agree to disagree. We'll just keep cricket out of our conversation if we ever meet up.
     
  19. g0g0l

    g0g0l ! SpAm

    Greg Chappel is the biggest joke (a practical one) I have ever seen. Oh! You want more??? There is more- Kiran More, whose toungue is like colour changing Lizards......
     
  20. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening

    Did anyone catch Boycott on NDTV yesterday....I believe he said these exact words "Kiran More is a joke!" and he also said that the media was too soft on Dravid.
     

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