This is to bring Peace not WAR .. THINK ....

Discussion in 'The ChitChat Lounge' started by Nanda, Sep 16, 2005.

  1. Nanda

    Nanda Bassist

    Ref 1: Ayub lied, India didn’t start ’65 war, we did: ex-PAF chief http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=77687
    Ref 2: Ayub men misled Pak with big ’65 lie: ex-PAF chief http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=77664

    Content 1:

    THE INDIAN EXPRESS
    Ayub lied, India didn’t start ’65 war, we did: ex-PAF chief

    K J M VARMA

    ISLAMABAD, SEPTEMBER 6: Describing the 1965 war as ‘‘wrong’’, Nur Khan, the then Pakistan Air Force chief, has said it was the result of attempts by Pak Army to push militants into Jammu and Kashmir. He accused former Army ruler Ayub Khan and his generals of telling a ‘‘big lie’’ to the nation.

    ‘‘They misled the nation with a big lie that India rather than Pakistan had provoked the war and that we were the victims of Indian aggression,’’ Air Marshal (retd) Khan told the Dawn on the 40th anniversary of the war.

    He called for an immediate change of command at the army’s general headquarters at Rawalpindi and asked General Musharraf to appoint a full-time army chief and restore full democracy by constituting an independent election commission.

    ‘‘Look at India. There a religious party comes to power and nobody cries foul and it goes out of power and nobody alleges rigging. We can also do this,’’ he said. (PTI)
     
  2. Nanda

    Nanda Bassist

    Content 2:

    Ayub men misled Pak with big ’65 lie: ex-PAF chief

    Air Marshal (retired) Nur Khan had all but resigned the post the very day that he took command of Pakistan Air Force on July 23, 1965.

    ‘‘Rumours about an impending operation were rife but the army had not shared the plans with other forces,’’ Air Marshal Nur Khan said. Sharing his memoirs with Dawn on the 40th anniversary of 1965 war, Air Marshal Khan said he was the most disturbed man that day, instead of feeling proud.

    Air Marshal (retired) Asghar Khan while handing over the command to Nur Khan had not briefed him about any impending war because he was not aware of it himself. So, in order to double check, Nur Khan called on the then Commander-in-Chief, General Musa Khan.

    Under his searching questions, Gen Musa wilted and with a sheepish smile admitted that something was afoot. Nur Khan’s immediate reaction was that this would mean war. But, Gen Musa said you need not worry as according to him Indians would not retaliate. Then he directed a still highly skeptical Nur Khan to Lt-Gen Akhtar Hasan Malik, GOC Kashmir, the man in-charge of ‘Operation Gibraltar’ for further details.

    The long and short of his discussion with Gen Malik was, ‘‘don’t worry, because the plan to send in some 800,000 infiltrators inside the occupied territory to throw out the Indian troops with the help of the local population’’, was so designed that the Indians would not be able retaliate and therefore the airforce need not get into war-time mode.

    A still incredulous Nur Khan was shocked when on further inquiry he found that except for a small coterie of top generals, very few in the armed forces knew about ‘Operation Gibraltar’. He asked himself how good, intelligent and professional people like Musa and Malik could be so naive, so irresponsible.

    For the air marshal, it was unbelievable. Even the then Lahore garrison commander had not been taken into confidence. And Governor of West Pakistan, Malik Amir Mohammad Khan of Kalabagh did not know what was afoot and had gone to Murree for vacations.

    It was at this point that he felt like resigning and going home. But then he thought such a rash move would further undermine the country’s interests and, therefore, kept his cool and went about counting his chickens—the entire airforce was too young and too inexperienced to be called anything else then—and gearing up his service for the D-day.

    The miracle that the PAF achieved on September 6, to a large extent, is attributed to Nur Khan’s leadership. He led his force from up front and set personal example by going on some highly risky sorties himself. But then no commander, no matter how daring and how professional, can win a battle if his troops are not fully geared to face such challenges and that too within 43 days of change in command.

    ‘‘The performance of the Army did not match that of the PAF mainly because the leadership was not as professional. They had planned the ‘Operation Gibraltar’ for self-glory rather than in the national interest. It was a wrong war. And they misled the nation with a big lie that India rather than Pakistan had provoked the war and that we were the victims of Indian aggression’’, Air Marshal Khan said.

    When on the second day of war President Gen Ayub wanted to know how we were faring, Musa informed him that the Army had run out of even ammunition. That was the extent of preparation in the Army. And the information had shocked Gen Ayub so much that it could have triggered his heart ailment, which overtook him a couple of years later. This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned. Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used Ayub as its role model and has continued to fight unwanted wars, the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said. In each of the subsequent wars, we have committed the same mistakes that we committed in 1965.

    (This is an edited version of a report in Dawn)
     
  3. Nanda

    Nanda Bassist

    Ok ppl ... Pakis and indians ...... Tell us wht u think about this ......

    If Pakis hate Indians coz we dug up prblems tell us wht u feel now ...
    Bcoz of hatredness of 1 MAN towards Indains ... we r in ruins now ...
    They have planted the seed of hate since childhood days ... making ppl hate each other !!!

    Spread this news and lets live in peace ....
     
  4. ssslayer

    ssslayer Banned

    to tell u the truth
    I DONT CARE ...

    anyway the Kashmir issue is nothing but an EGO Issue ...

    n really i dont give a damn!

    politicians everywhere exploit the issues and suckers (read as citizens) act soo stupid ... acting on their advise ...
     
  5. Nanda

    Nanda Bassist

    Ya ...... Its the ppl who get mislead by the damn politicians .... And finally get into trouble ...

    Karshmir is seriously and ego issue ... Its killed every possible tyhing out there ... The ppl, the beauty ....

    Why the hell can't they just do some crap and let go ...... Give some part to pakis and live in peace ...

    But are the pakis such that u give them a bit they ask more later on ?????(I have no clue on this) .... But there will be trouble makes always .......
     
  6. nik_bokacheley

    nik_bokacheley :help: I'm a mad :sadbye:

    Guys, i don't think this shud be kept open for long..coz paki & indi is gonna create fueds..:eek::
     
  7. ssslayer

    ssslayer Banned

    ^ y?

    yaar nanda i really cannot believe the level of ignorance shown by the general public ... and how easily they are mislead by the politicians ... despicable ...

    pathetic ...
    i have realised b.t.w. one thing ... most of the ppl jus wanna be mislead ...
     
    cYpHeR likes this.
  8. cYpHeR

    cYpHeR Banned

    true true...couldnt agree more
     
  9. nik_bokacheley

    nik_bokacheley :help: I'm a mad :sadbye:

    Very true...cud have agreed more..bt no scope yet..:p:
     
  10. ssslayer

    ssslayer Banned

    ^^^ welll u cud become a politician n then have time of your life misleading ppl ... :p:
     
  11. nik_bokacheley

    nik_bokacheley :help: I'm a mad :sadbye:

    :annoyed:..Nah..Never..I hate politics..And, I am a peace loving chap!!:)
     
  12. shak

    shak Harrr!

    u talking about such BIG issues! LOL ... those bloody midgets cant even come up with the definition for "terrorism" in the U.N assembly .. huh ... talk about world peace!
    i so iwsh i could stuff the U.N charter down their throats and release hungry dogs in their butts ... i mean .. what are they good for then? U.N was created so no war would take place, poor will have better standards of livning and there would be world peace? what happened to all that? 0.7% or GAP was to be given to poor countries ... u.s.a only pays .16% of GAP to this date!! ... syria, bosnia, palestine, iraq etc .. wars!! disruption .. couldnt do anything about it!
    its just a name sake ... they cant do anything .so lets not look up to them ..we are at peace .. i lvoe ya people .. i hope you love me as well .. good enuff .. now lets go and take a leak
     
  13. akkyy21

    akkyy21 #%@!$&

    Think before u say such things man, there r indian soldiers there trying to protect kashmir all the fukin time,... n also yr butt btw.

    Believe me,.. i have been there, if u see the way things r goin around there, the way these soldiers stay putt day n night in the cold weather, u rip them down totally by shruggin off,..sayin I DONT GIVE A DAMN. Wel,... i sincerely hope u shd be made stand on the kashmir borders,.. or even on the streets after 8pm bare butted with no one to protect u, yeah n then shout out loud,.. I DONT GIVE A DAMNNN..... lets see then what all u get in yr a.ss then.



    PS : Dont take this personal,.... anybody thinkin kashmir is a ego isuue just freaks me out
     
  14. shak

    shak Harrr!

    why are they there in the first place? ever thought about that?
     
  15. akkyy21

    akkyy21 #%@!$&

    ^^ Well my answer for that would lead to raging controversies here, which wont be of any good.

    They are there to protect their country, their land, their pride.
     
  16. shak

    shak Harrr!

    true! .. fundamental right of every living human being ... lets not go there .. but i think the parties at both sides use this emotional excuse .. hmm sad
     
  17. akkyy21

    akkyy21 #%@!$&

    ^^^ I agree on that one, i totally root for a total political scenario ka change in India as well as Pak,...


    But shruggin off kashmir????? :annoyed:
     
  18. shak

    shak Harrr!

    naa.... the main objective is kashmir...it cant be shrugged off ... infact it needs intensive considerations ...
    i dont opt for a political change tho .. i think all we need is a bit of slack .. and a more major take part of kashmiri's themselves
     
  19. shak

    shak Harrr!

    and by that i dont mean that india/pa kshould mantain thier political hostility towards each other .. it definitley requries reforms .. but slack in attitude is really the root objective
     
  20. ssslayer

    ssslayer Banned

    sham patriotism ... if u are really patriot u leave everything n join army ...

    anyway am not concerend coz i dont want kashmir ot be a part of india ... taje it or leave it ...
    anyway if u ahve been to kashmir ... u should knowing about the situation tthere .. those ppl there (civvies) want an independant country of their own LMAO ...

    among al lthe soldiers poseted there ... none trust the civvies there ...

    is this the land we are trying to protect?
    that is a mockery of protection ...

    second thing ... i wont like to stand out at 8pm with my butt naked ... even in Delhi ... n u talking about Kasmire ;) hehe ...
    anyway by similar justification i can extend the argument to an American in Iraq or Afghanistan ... hence the american military action is justified n something that US should be proud of ... no yaar ... c'mon ...

    i am not underestimating the soldiiers ... but the ppl who dictate them - the ministers ... i have already said this before ...

    nothing personal dude ... peace
     

Share This Page