Sa Ri Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni Sa-Tabs

hey what makes u think that rahman was composing in nilambhari or hamsadwani in the first place?
scales are there every where. harmonic minor is keeravani, double harmonic scale is mayamalavagowla, spanish gypsy scale is vakulabharanam. so will u start criticising western compositions in these scales?
what next? will you claim ownership of all musical notes because of the sarali varisai?
its good for musicians in different genres to take inputs from other genres. some like the end result some don't, but u can't blame the composer for that.

 

ananth,
read my posts again. I never said AR Rahman was composing in whatever ragam. I sed that that particular song was this ragam. Regarding Rahman, he has knowledge of carnatic music, so im sure he just didnt happen to stumble on Neelambari as he uses lots of neelambari pidis in the song.

What sort of rude comment is that i will claim ownership of all the musical notes. I never put a patent on neelambari and said he cant use it. all i sed was i didnt like the way he jumbled them together. No matter how much you insult me, im stil not gonna like what rahman did with that song.

"some like the end result some don't"
exactly my point..i dont! and youl for some reason are trying to force me here. Grow up guys

 

pls don't take it personally.. what will I get from being rude to u?

all I'm saying is that I don't like your view that just because he "jumbled up some raagas" you don't like it because "it goes against your principles in carnatic", and thus you don't like the music. its like you don't like it by principle, rather than by the value of the music.

have you heard shred gutiarists like malmsteem? they play these scales all the time. I don't know what you will have to say about them!

 

Just an opinion here. What Beethoven did to music may have been totally unnacceptable to Bach because it broke the definition of classical music in his period. Likewise, Debussy has shocked some of his predecessors. "Western" classical music has this evolved over time. Carnatic music has fought to retain its purity unlike Western or even Hindustani. This won't change for a long time - and I guess it is because Carnatic has laid the foundation using rigid rules, and creativity though unlimited is within those bounds. Preserving that tradition I think is very important.
Filmi composers objective however is to appeal to masses. Money may be secondary. They experiment with lots of different music with an attempt to bring out something fresh. Common people like it or don't care. Purists hate it.
My take on this is, music is a learning experience. With good understanding of music whether Indian or Western, I believe fusing various music does yield gratifying results. If we call something "Carnatic" then we should play by the rules. If it has influences of carnatic, I would call it "Carnatic based".
Listen to all kinds of music to widen your musical understanding.

 

exactly! as long as its not called carnatic, I think purists should lay off their criticism.

 

lol, thats like the nazis using the swastik and calling it the svastika.
They inverted it, the whole world doesnt know wat the original swastik means anymore, and only associate it with nazism.

Yet we should say oh, its not the swastik though and not be disappointed that our symbol was misused.

"it goes against your principles in carnatic"
I never sed those words, putting them in quotation marks is wrong. No matter wat you guys say, rahman is smarter, and shouldnt have done that.

 

I am not sure if that analogy was directed at my reply. At any rate, we can go on and on and never reach a conclusion. Whats the point of debating if theres no outcome? Only time wasted.

 

No kishmu

That was direct at Ananth's "exactly! as long as its not called carnatic, I think purists should lay off their criticism." statement.

 

theres a small difference
Rahman never goes about calling his music "carnatic".
WE find the correlations and WE discuss it.
I am sure Rahman has the common sense to not call it carnatic after what he has done to it. We therefore cannot interpret it on the same lines as pure carnatic.

 

The germans never called their svastika indian too..
your point is invalid

 

u r all fftopic: now lets get back to sa ri ga ma tabs

 

btw nazis DID call it swastika.

anyway, sorry for being off topic. lets get back to sa re ga ma tabs.

 

can u give the tabs for new raaga balkamurali kirshna invented.. it has only ri or something like that : so u just go ri ri ri ri ri ri ri riririririri ri

 

some more scales

To get back on track, here are some nice scales you can experiment with for your leads.
I have given the carnatic raaga which has the equivalent notes, along with the name of the scale in western music. All scales are based with C as tonic.


Keeravani (Harmonic minor scale)
================================
E|-----------------------------------3--4------
B|--------------------------3--4--6------------
G|--------------------4--5---------------------
D|-----------3--5--6---------------------------
A|--3--5--6------------------------------------
E|---------------------------------------------

Maya maalavagowla (Double harmonic scale)
=========================================
E|-----------------------------------3--4------
B|-----------------------------5--6------------
G|--------------------4--5--6------------------
D|--------2--3--5--6---------------------------
A|--3--4---------------------------------------
E|---------------------------------------------

Naasikabhooshani (Hungarian major scale)
========================================
E|--------------------------------2--3--5--6------
B|--------------------------4--5------------------
G|-----------------2--3--5------------------------
D|--------2--4--5---------------------------------
A|--3--6------------------------------------------
E|------------------------------------------------

Simhendra Madhyamam (Hungarian minor scale)
===========================================
E|--------------------------------2--3--4------
B|--------------------------3--4---------------
G|--------------------4--5---------------------
D|-----------4--5--6---------------------------
A|--3--5--6------------------------------------
E|---------------------------------------------

Vakulabharanam (Spanish gypsy scale)
====================================
E|-----------------------------------3--4--6------
B|-----------------------------5--6---------------
G|--------------------3--5--6---------------------
D|--------2--3--5--6------------------------------
A|--3--4------------------------------------------
E|------------------------------------------------

Mohanam (Chinese or Mongolian scale)
====================================
E|--------------------------3--5------
B|--------------------3--5------------
G|--------------2--5------------------
D|--------2--5------------------------
A|--3--5------------------------------
E|------------------------------------

Madhyamaavathi (Egyptian scale)
===============================
E|--------------------------3--6------
B|--------------------3--6------------
G|--------------3--5------------------
D|--------3--5------------------------
A|--3--5------------------------------
E|------------------------------------

 

could u also specify the gamakkas.

for eg mohanam is different from the hindustani bhoop even though they share same notes..
because of the the way u do gamakkas in mohanam..

like u do a sa -(ri->ga->ri->ga->ri) ga pa da->(sa->da->sa->da) in mohanam.

liek 3-5/7\5/7\5 etc

 

dude I don't know the gamakas for all these raagas
(and I fear that may be treading too close to carnatic for my own safety! )
anyway, they sound good when played just as scales without any restrictions.
I'll try to post some characteristic phrases if possible, but that will require some research on my part.
It will be great if carnatic experts can condescend to give their inputs on playing these scales.

 

jay, i dont understnad your mohanam interpretation. i can tell you the gamakas in all of the ragams..not a problem..i dont know how to explain it on a document though..

 

cool harini i will discuss this with u in pvt, ananth it would be cool to put in those in the tabs. I can help u with it for basic raagas. I will get help from manu varghese if possible.

 

that will be great! thanx

 

Guyz.. I said `timeout` in my previous post thinking that it would end the discussion. I apologize to `harini` if the phrase `shred apart carnatic` seemed a bit rude. But I happen to agree with a lot of other folks in this thread. Carnatic music needs to evolve over time. Carnatic music cannot have widespread appeal(a.k.a mass appeal ) as long as it ignores a key component in music -- harmony. How does a concert with 50 veenas playing carnatic music at the same time sound like? Cant imagine, I guess horrible!

Any one can shed light on why carnatic music is missing such a key aspect of music?