Raise your voice

It was not about corruption but it said that Indians were not always the same.

That way there's no truth anywhere. You scrapped the wats written in the History books and taught to students.

I will not justify the fighting thing but i will definitely say that it was amongst the throne bearers and not amongst the common people.

AGREED !!!

I would answer it in one word... China !!!

 

Remember China also follows a lot of other things that have nothing to do with the freedom to their citizens. That has major impact on its global effectiveness.
And corruption is rampant in China, quite possibly far more than in India, but as in history - tightly knit - so no one "knows" except by word of mouth.

Would you want India to become the same?
The main thing is that would you want to live in that India?


You could've brought up Korea and Japan as great examples who have not followed British Colonization path to reach global arena.
But then Japan was already established as industrial power at the turn of last century.

S.Korea is a very recent story (based on US ways) and impressive. India needs to learn a lot from them.

 

Ya i thought of Japan as well.. infact since i work for a Japanese company it was very obvious of me to think of them.. Japs are very nice human beings as well..very simple indeed..
But i've heard a lot bout Korean's exploitation. Take Corts for example, my friends working for Korean giants find that place no better than a jail.
(My G.K. sucks so i cudn't find better examples

 

Then imagine what would be China!!!

Just like Pyramids could be built by Pharaos because ppl were oppressed and made to believe that God ordered everything (including Pharaos raping their teenage daughters as well as sons - yes homos3xuality has been ever since).

China works in similar fashion.


In any case you know why you feel that world has become a worse place?
Because the "gareeb" idiots have woken up to realize that if the kings and rulers can bend the rules, become corrupt and still eat their cakes, why can't the simple folks too?
I believe its for the good of human civilization.

 

I think our DNAs are being modified... Its a part of evolution... So i shud keep my mouth shut and go with the flow... I shud do wat others are doing and want me to do.. I shud also become corrupt and why only corrupt, i shud beat the shiiiit out of them and excel at that..i shud also swallow the money that's meant for purchasing medicines for the poor and still be happy and buy land for my children, so wat if i'll built my bunglow over the poor man's graveyard... i will still be happy as i got wat i wanted... to hell with people to hell with everyone else..

Stay corrupted Stay corrected !!!

 

What exactly is the state of being corrupt?
How will you define it?

and regarding your:

Though not very evident - but ultimately what is money? its the net produce of the country = the GNP.
Now that is distributed among the ppl based on the services they have put in and the products they have sold = individual income.

And when you spend that income buying expensive guitars and amps, you are spending Indian rupees, indian money, which comes out of overall India's income.

That money could've been used to buy thousand of medicine for hundreds of poor ppl.
But do you do it?


When you are on the death bed, you write your last will and testament and declare your possessions to be handed over to your progeny. Do you even give it to the actual needy ppl?


When you buy a house, or even stay on rent - do you care whether it was earlier a burial ground. In fact - even if it ain't - how do you know for sure that it wasn't thousands of years ago?


Lets face it. We humans are two faced liars, and all this stupid talk of (possible where convenient) morality is just an indication of that.

 

I dint made myself clear enough, lemme elaborate.. I have a friend whose father is a CMO (Chief Medical Officer). The govt. allot funds for providing free medicines to the poor people. But the entire amount is not used for the very purpose instead the mediators eat most of the money. Doesn't his father get paid for doing his duties as a CMO? Why do he need to take bribe?

Now where does my money come into picture? Don't i pay taxes for each and everything? Even when i'm importing an expensive guitar don't i pay duties and taxes?

As far as my duties are concerned for the needy... i have sponsored a child and i pay 600 Rs per month (it may not be a huge contribution but better than none). I donate to an NGO, Asha Niketan twice an year.

And everybody is not two faced there are all kinds of people in this world.

Spread kindness...It's Contagious !!!

 

^ Well lets see how many ppl around you can you find who will/do donate proportional to their incomes.

Besides, I also asked about last will. What are you gonna put in there? Give it to needy or pass it on to your children (who would've already established themselves steady)?

By talking about corrupt CMO etc we cannot ignore what we are doing, or rather not doing.

You paying taxes and duties does not make you shirk away from your "responsibility" of taking care of weak and needy.
Your saying that "i pay taxes" smells of a presumption that you also believe govt collects taxes, hence its govt's responsibility to provide whatever a poor person needs, infact its govt responsibility to provide everything to everyone.

1. Either say its not my responsibility and I am greedy and selfish (to some extent, probably lesser than average human though) - and MY needs are wishes come first (which possibly will never end while I am living).

2. Or say I am highly morally strung up and un-selfish person. And I believe its my duty to take care of each and every person who needs my help.
I will attend to their needs first, and attend to my needs only if they are pre-requisite to helping someone else. (like feeding yourself so that you can live to serve others). - in other words i am Mother Teresa.

Be clear on this first.

I clearly say that I belong to #1 category.
And almost all the ppl I have come across are also like that.
But few of these somehow believe that they are saints ... but don't realize that its just different degrees of selfishness.
Someone believes in placing his desire for a 50K guitar above 100 of poor and hungry ppl, who he could've fed for a month.
Someone believes in placing his desire for 1Lac of kickback above 1000s of poor and ill ppl, who he could've give medicines and facilities for weeks.
Someone believes in placing his desire for having an ice-cream of Rs50 over another person's livelihood for a day.

We are all selfish. We are all greedy.
that is why we humans have evolved and survived.
The only difference boils down to what is your threshold? - Where you start giving importance to someone else over your desires.
That is where we all are different. But the funny thing is that we accuse someone of being selfish, of being corrupt simply because our threshold is lower, and other person's is higher.

Suit yourself ... you can't change internal wiring of ppl.

 

Perfectly said. And I belong to the 1st category..
Its my belief that everyone has got work to do, jobs, offices, and by the end of the day its not their responsibility to feed every hungry man they find. I don't see how someone can work hard the whole day to earn, say 500 bucks, and then go on to serve others. Not practical.
That's why we pay taxes, and the government's alloted a quota to them. If they don't get it, its a gross failure of the system, which it is.

So what does it boil down to?

 

Will you justify a criminal as well? If someone shoots your brother will you justify that the criminal has evolved from a local thief to a murderer and he did it for his survival or will you seek his termination?

If set free, this criminal will then evolve into a MLA and later to a minister maybe a PM and drill the whole nation? Is this also "Evolution"?

Can't we bring down the threshold ? Moreover i don wanna change wiring of anyone...I jus wanna change myself which i'm doin and i feel good about it...

 

Seeking "termination" itself is a primitive action of taking revenge.
If you are indeed "civil", you will reform the person (in spite of his savage acts committed earlier).

Since, I belong to the first category, I would see that this guy has evolved to become this way. But he is going to harm me and my further family (since I am self-centered, I will not be bothered about HIS family at all).
And I will try to eliminate him.

I believe you are going to patiently reform this fellow. Isn't it?
In fact that is the basis of law and order in the modern world.
You are not supposed to take revenge and take "kanoon in your own hands"
Problem is that we humans, deep down are not so much civilized.

Wrong.
Govt's is not Robin hood that collects taxes from rich to pay the poor.

Gov't collects taxes to make infrastructure which EVERYONE uses (not just poor or rich)
The taxes are meant for development which affect everyone (like electricity and water)

If you are so much concerned that gov't measures are not specifically aimed for the poor, you should also know few things:
1. The Poor are in majorty in this country
2. This country is governed via democracy
3. Poor ppl turn out to vote in much larger percentages than rich
4. Poor ppl have enough visibility to action to determine whcih person they would want to vote for.
5. Current breed of politicians is selected by poor ppl votes majorly.

So the poor ppl select the "rulers".
Now if the rulers were not doing things to appease the poor, they would've never got selected.

This may sound little non-intuitive to you. But fine. You don't know ppl then.


What you count as most important thing in life is not what your neighbor will.


So the poor ppl do not count electricity and water as the most important thing in their life.
They like Ganpati festivals, and booze, and tamasha.
Their votes are inclined in same fashion.

You have got no right to say that they are wrong.

 

hi...its a nice thread i been following for sometime now...and i liked it...
@Alpha1
upto that point, its kinda same with what i think or how i see to it. But why i am writing now is because ALPHA1 says

and that particular point its kinda unstable IMO. Yes, we can never say that they are wrong because they have their own thought-process, they have their own reason.

1. but it is indeed true that their thought process is being driven by someone else who is in a position of making his choice and that "someone" makes the wrong choice most of the time for his own profit that we can easily contemplate (provided that media not being too much of manipulative).

2. and majority of them have no access to bigger world yet or even if they have, they are not well erudite to comprehend that. You gotta admit that by looking at the statistics.

Now this is the very question I m gonna ask, Do poor people have enough visibility about “wats going on”?? or are they just the scapegoat of “this is the best one we have got, we gotta live with that”?

@rickkkyrich
man, it was awesome and i also wanna hear one heart melting solo with ur mind blowing guitar of yours in this song by you.

 

I agree.
However, you are limiting yourself only to the initial frames of the movie.

In the longer run, once you are misled, twice you are misled, but you do know after a while that you've been taken for a ride.

If you do not act even after that - it can only mean two things:
1. You were not taken for a ride. Someone somewhere is judging the situation wrong.
2. You are taken for a ride, but you enjoy that ride more than the stable ground you were standing on.

In both the cases, you have the prerogative to act.
I don't buy the excuse that the poor are still unaware and misled and don't know what they really find important, and still vote blindly.

No.
In any case, none of the poor have actually come out to stand for themselves.

This also illustrates two points of Indian psyche:
1. We believe that we are destined to be like this (follow whatever is going on)
2. The rulers have the divine right to rule us. And they pass this on to their progeny. And whatever they do is acceptable.

The poor still have it. Probably they continue screwing their lives living by these ethos.

HOWEVER, the "middle" class is getting wise.
And they are taking things in their own hands.
Which means things getting little random and unstable.
Evolution.

And this is where I was telling Ricckrich that he feels that Indians have become more corrupt.

 

@bench:
One more thing, which just came up in my mind.

Whenever you say that certain ppl don't have their own though process, do you realize that actually 80-90% of humans don't have their own thought process.
They believe in anything the society tells them.
In fact their rights and wrongs are based on that.

What is society? Its a large group of individuals with collective thought process and long established rules and codes.

What do you call it when this is done quite visibly and quickly?
Propaganda.

But when it is done quite subtly and gently and slowly, no one bothers paying attention to it.



So can the democracy ever work?

 

u knw what i really feel ...
all animals plants humans come in this world to live there due ... so if they r facing problems in this life it should not make any difference ... we must be indifferent to the problems of the world

The world has been there for thousands of years like this ...if some thing is very wrong nature itself cures it.... y bother bout all this... try and live ur life with utmost pleasure and every thing looks gud ... that pleasure may be of giving or donating ... for me its like being god wehn i gve somethign o begger or even wehn i post a poem here ...

there is definatly some pleasure in sharing or giving ...may be im wrong !!

 

there is a pleasure in sharing ur views also ...lol

 

This is a professional forum, so we should look more or less professionally. No problems with the ïèîíåðñêèé ãàëñòóê, but I dont think that RAMA forum is a place for the avanguard artistic expressions.

 

who is thius goland fellow spamming on the boards?

And the least he could've done was to mention contacts of escorts in India.
What are we gonna do with escorts in seattle???