Judge a chord from lead?

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons, Tutorials & Tips' started by rktpro, May 24, 2011.

  1. rktpro

    rktpro New Member

    How to judge a chord from a note. For example, I know the lead for national anthem and it goes like--- SA RE GA GAGA GA GAGA GA GAGA RE GA MA. This can be played on any scale. Now, my question is how the chords are judged for a note say SA? Also, chord for which note is played? Is is that the note which comes after a certain beats is used as a root of chord or something?
    Thanks in advance!
  2. Ashyantony7

    Ashyantony7 Performer

    Actually.. the chords for a song lead will depend on the composer's wish.. but.. for lead like C E A C2 A ( say for example) Cmaj or Amin will suit.. well its just the fact that one of the notes of the lead is taken as a root or it may even be the fifth or third of a chord.. its true that more than one chord can be played for the same piece of lead.. as i say its all the wish of the composer..
  3. allen sebastian

    allen sebastian reverbnation.com/nissi

    ashyantony is right!
    if you are sure with the scales then u will not have doubt on chords.. as you know the formulas for a basic Major scale goes like 1 3 5 and goes like this.,

    with that notes you mentioned sa re ga ga for eg: we'll take it for C major scale, you play the melody, find the apt scale, and using the formula u'll know the chord. for C major song u can add Aminor too and it sounds nice on same parts,. C Major's related Minor is Am. you play and you'll hear the difference ;-)
  4. rktpro

    rktpro New Member

    And should the chords be shifted only after certain amount of beats or is that depends on my playing and strumming style.
  5. Keoraf

    Keoraf Keyboard Player

    I also agree with you man. It is true that more than one chord can be played for the same piece of the lead.
    In fact, more than one chord can be played for a single note in a lead, solo or whatever piece of a song!
    A very nice example is the song Mohabbat Ho Na Jaye from movie Kasoor (2001), Kumar Sanur - Alka Yagnik.
    The song is in the Eb major scale. So listen to the piano intro in the beginning,
    There are 3 chords being played for the same note, the Eb note, the Eb, G# and the Cm!
    The chords for the first 4 measures are:
    /Eb-Cm/ G#-Bb/ 2x

    Just listen to the song on youtube (piano solo from 00:06-00:20):
    YouTube - ‪Kasoor-Mohabbat ho na jaye..‬‏

    Btw, i think this is a very good thread, just about the discussion how to discover the chords for a song and everything what is needed to do such. Very important is to discover the scale!!!
  6. allen sebastian

    allen sebastian reverbnation.com/nissi

    tushar! well not really.. depends on the original song composed you have to hold/play the chords whether its 2 beats or one bar. for a same melody you can even shift chords for each beat., u might not know this music director his name is iilayaraja! he is terribly amazing man when it comes for chord progressions.. each word, each letter! lol he makes a chord.

    Keoraf thats a nice example and yeah its good to have a thread for chords discussion :) we'll make it more bigger.. still there are more musicians around.. would be nice to put ur ideas here., help us to learn more :)
  7. rktpro

    rktpro New Member

    Surely more than one chord can be played on a particular piece of lead. I guess, when you can judge the basic chord or the root or key of the song, then you can play all other chords, which fall in the progression of that root chord by judging the chord by ear of just by hit and trial.
    One more thing I am curious about is- Can all songs be played this way? I mean playing a song by judging the root chord and then playing only those chords which fall in the chord progression? Or are there songs which require you to play some other chord than the chords in the progression?
    EDIT- By chord progression I mean those specific chords progressions that are common for a scale. For ex- Em...CM...DM...
  8. Keoraf

    Keoraf Keyboard Player

    @ Tushar:
    There are plenty of songs where the chord progression is not only from that particularly scale.
    There is no rule in the music world that is saying that only the chords of a certain scale is going to be used.
    A little example about what you asked is the song Pukarata Chala Huun Main, movie Mere Sanam (1965).
    I've posted the chords for this song a while ago:
    Pukarata Chala Huun Main
    In the Stanza the G chord is being used, the scale is Cm, the G chord doesn't exist in ths scale

    / Cm / Cm /
    Ye Dillagi Ye Shokhiyaan Salaam Ki
    / Cm / Bb /
    Yahi To Baat Ho Rahi Hai Kaam Ki
    / Eb / Gm /
    Koi To Mud Ke Dekh Legaa Is Taraf
    / G / Cm /
    Koi Nazar To Hogi Mere Naam Ki

    / Cm/ Cm /
    Pukarata Chala Huun Main
    / Bb / Cm /
    Gali Gali Bahaar Ki
    / G# / Bb /
    Bas Ek Chhaanv Zulf Ki
    / Cm/ Eb /
    Bas Ik Nigaah Pyaar Ki
    / Gm / Cm /
    Pukarata Chala Huun Main

    In that particularly part of the song, the song is going "out of scale", thats why the G chords is being played!
    And this is happeing in lots of other songs aswell!
    There are very less songs just played in the notes of the used scale, very often notes of other scales are used aswell!
    Thats music man, the use of the "out of the scale" notes is giving the song another mood, feeling dimension etc.!
    Super-Admin likes this.
  9. rktpro

    rktpro New Member

    @Keoraf- Nice example to explain. When you have said this I would like to know something more. The formula for a major chord is 1-3-5. This holds true for a keyboard too. Isn't it? Then, how does it hold true to the D major chord?
  10. Keoraf

    Keoraf Keyboard Player

    I don't exactly understand what you mean by this.
    The 1-3-5 formula is for the scale, in your example, the D chord!
    So you have to look for the 1st, 3rd and 5th note of the D-scale and not in another scale!
    The notes of the D-scale:
    D E F# G A B C#
    So the D chord, 1-3-5 ----> D-F#-A, the 1st, 3rd and 5th note of the D scale

    Eb chord, the 1st, 3rd and 5th note of the Eb scale, Eb-G-Bb:
    Eb F G Ab Bb C D

    The Cm chord, the 1st, 3rd and 5th note of the Cm scale, C-Eb-G :
    C D Eb F G Ab Bb

    I guess, this is it what you meant!
  11. Ashyantony7

    Ashyantony7 Performer

    Good work on this thread Keoraf and allen_nissi... What Keoraf talks about is all the accidentals i.e notes played which originally do not belong to the scale.. accidentals occurs in the lead too.. Hmmm.. Let me tell a you simple example.. it is always good to use E7 to give unique feel in A min songs.. Actually A minor scale(natural) has notes A B C D E F G .. But E7 has notes E G# B D.. Well we know G# doesn't belong to this scale.. Well if you closely follow minor scale songs.. You'll know that the sus4 chord and 7th chord of the fifth note is occasionally used.. well.. We know that that there are quite a large variety of chords are available such as sus4,augmented, diminished , maj7 which are used just for compositon.. Well you can build a song with only the 3 maj, 3 min available which is quite simple and the truth is majority of songs are done with just that.. But sus4, seventh ,dim will add different feels for the song.. Well A.R.R uses quite a number of different chords like these.. If you are a beginner , then you can take note of these formulas..

    Major - 1,3,5
    Minor - 1,3b,5 (major scale ) , 1,3,5 (minor scale)
    sus4 - 1, 3#,5
    dim - 1,3b,5b
    Maj7 - 1,3,5,7
    7 - 1,3,5,7b
    6 - 1,3,5,6
    aug - 1,3,5#

    well.. There are still a quite huge variety of chords available based on tension like 9,11 etc.. and variety of combinbations available like dim7.. All I can say is that if we speak of chords it is quite a huge topic to cover.. But I can say is that if you have good knowledge on theory it will be a good asset..

    @Tushar - the rule 1 - 3- 5 holds good for every major chord.. Well firstly you must know the scales where D major occurs.. D major occurs in scales D , A , G and of course their relative minors Bm , F#m , Em..

    firstly I want you to know the rule for major and minor scale..

    Major r,1,1,1/2,1,1,1,1/2
    Minor r,1,1/2,1,1,1/2,1,1

    1=2 sharps or two semitones
    1/2= one sharp or semitone

    Well.. following the rule I"ll write down the notes

    D - D E F# G A B C#
    G - G A B C D E F# G A
    A - A B C# D E F# G# A
    Bm - B C# D E F# G A B
    Em - D E F# G A B C D E
    F#m- D E F# G# A B C# D

    Hmmm.. You can see If you take from D you ,ll find 1-3-5 for Dmajor chord
  12. Ashyantony7

    Ashyantony7 Performer

    Accidentals and theory

    But I must say Keoraf And Allen-nissi have done a good work on this thread..
  13. Keoraf

    Keoraf Keyboard Player

    Thanks man, thats what i meant with the "out of scale" notes, didn't know they where called accidentals in English!
    As you already have noticed, my English isn't so well, just because i'm from the Netherlands, so please don't judge me what about my English!
    Very well said indeed, you also are doing some good work on this thread!
  14. rktpro

    rktpro New Member

    Thanks everyone. IT was a great help. Highly appreciated.
  15. allen sebastian

    allen sebastian reverbnation.com/nissi

    keoraf the song you posted is a wonderful example..

    well as its explained earlier a composer can add whatever chords he wants to sit on the melody! like the song you mentioned has got some accidental chords and it decorates the song/melody more and more.. even we can try something new ;-) .,

    ashyantony: Thanks alot for the formulas and your compliment. you took good time writing stuffs on this topic. i appreciate.

    and other members too!

    sharing is love.. share and we'll learn more..
  16. Ashyantony7

    Ashyantony7 Performer

    Topics to be discussed

    Talking about leads and chords leaves us good new things to discus.. wonder why...

    1. playing specific chords adds good feel to the leads while others don't...

    2.why does the chord sounds very similar even when inversed

    3.what are the roles of the third and fifth of a chord

    4.why power chords work so good in distortion.. why third sounds bad in distortion.

    5.reason for natural harmonics only in specific frets of guitar like 5,7,12..

    come on pro IGTIANS we need to discuss.. :)
  17. rktpro

    rktpro New Member

    Nice topic started. To question 4 I think power chords would sound as good in a great acoustic.
  18. popoya

    popoya New Member

    To question 2 : When we inverse a chord , it's the same notes which are being played , but at a different (higher or lower) octave . The pitch of the chord will be different from the original chord , but otherwise it'll sound very similar . I think all of us (or atleast most of us) like playing inversed chords , because the notes consisting it are not too close to eachother and the chord doesn't sound too "heavy" .

    To question 1 : We change chords while playing a lead usually when the main beats of the lead fall . The chord we use generally has a few notes which make up that part of the lead. It depends on whether that part sounds "major-y" or "minor-y" and we use a major or a minor chord for that part. I think that's why a few specific chords really fit in with the lead .

    I hope atleast partially these answers are right (and vaguely understandable) because the questions Ashy has posted ...... God, they're good and damn tricky to answer .......
  19. Ashyantony7

    Ashyantony7 Performer

    That's a good one Radhika.. ya theses questions can't be answered by a single person.. we need more answers before we can conclude which is the best.. but you're right in most cases.. :)
  20. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening

    It's actually the other way around. Playing specific notes adds a nice feel to the chord. Western Music has a lot to do with Harmonies. A major chord is 3 notes played together. If you add a 4th note on top of it, it adds another harmony and sounds awesome. It might be one of the notes of the chord or a different note. Depending on what note you hit on a certain chord, you get a certain harmony. This is what you do when you play a solo.

    Check this out:

    YouTube - ‪The Music Man- Barbershop Quartet‬‏

    Look at when they first sing "I scream" (or "Ice Cream") 25 seconds into the video. That is a major chord with the notes (1 3 5 8). You could easily play a 1 3 5 7 or a 1 3 5 b7 or a 1 3 5 7 9 or anything under the sun.

    I'm not sure what inversed chords are. I assume D/F# is an inversed chord? If yes, you do get a slightly different sound.

    The 5th really doesn't do anything for a chord except add a note to it. You can often eliminate the 5th note in a complicated chord on the guitar because you can only hold so many notes. A piano player would play the same chord by playing 2 different chords on the left and right hand, the guitarist compromises and only plays the important notes.

    The 3rd decides whether the chord is a major or a minor and is important in deciding the tone. The 3rd and the 7th are usually the more important notes of the chord.

    I'm guessing here. This, from what little I understand of music, is because of the closeness of the 3rd to the 1st. When you play a power chord, the sound is usually muddy and the 1st and 3rd being close to each other do not gel well on the lower strings because we cannot ascertain the frequencies very well on the lower scale. If you play the 1st and 3rd together on the higher strings, it usually sounds pretty nice (and make a lot of Bryan Adams guitar solos).

    The 5th is a little further away and hence sounds nice even on a fat string with a low sound.

    Not true. You get harmonics on every fret...it only gets harder to get them to sound. The 9th gives you natural harmonics as well. If you play harmonics on the 5th, 4th and slightly lower on the 4th, you get a major arpeggio. It's easier on the 5th, 7th and 12th though I don't know why. Try getting the others on an electric guitar. It might be easier.

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