# help needed in scales

Discussion in 'Beginner's Q&A Forum' started by FiXXXeR, Apr 13, 2005.

1. ### FiXXXeRNew Member

hey guys......i'm a beginner an iam somewhat stuck with the scales........i read on this site itself that the scales would sound like sa re ga ma or do re me.....whatever......but ive tried all the five scales namely major,minor pentoic,blues,major pentaoic and minor but none of em sounds like dat.....plz help me out....thanx. :rock: :rock: :rock:

2. ### dennisThe Bhangra King

k..lets start from the basics
Basically we have the notes C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C which correspont to ur Sa , Re Ga, Ma, etc.
Now a scales i basically a sequence of notes arranged in a certain intervallic fashion.
Dont get scared.

Another thing u gotta know before we proceed:
Half Step: when u go from C to C#, or C# to D or B to C
Remember: c,c#,d,d#,e,f,f#,g,g#,a,a#,b,c. (and similarly u can get it in terms of flats)

So now...major scale:
the formula for the construction of a major scale goes as:
F-F-H-F-F-F-H. where F- is a full step(2 half steps) and H denotes a half step.
Example:we wanna find the C major scale..so using the above formula
a full step from C is C->C#->D. Then a full step from D is D->D#->E
Half step from E is E-> F..and so on u get:
C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C
This is the C major scale..this is ur Sa,Re,Ga,Ma scale.

So u can construct any major scale.

correction

A little reminder that it isnt F-F-H-F-F-F-H but F-F-F-H-F-F-F-H

4. ### dennisThe Bhangra King

no dude..u are wrong..apply it to the C major scale and see what u get!!

5. ### ambujPro Tabber

dennis is right.. its F-F-H-F-F-F-H

6. ### alericNew Member

Yeah, it is F-F-H-F-F-F-H

A good way to remember this is two "F-F-H"s seperated by "F" ( Read on some website )

:rockon:

7. ### ananth222Beginner

there may be several reasons why your "scale" does not sound like sa re ga ma.
lets rule out the trivial reason first - is your guitar tuned properly? If its not, you may be playing the tabs corresponding to a scale but the notes produced won't match the scale.
next, what do you mean by "sound like sa re ga ma"? Do you have a reference "sa re ga ma" to compare with? besides, sa re ga ma, do re mi, and C D E are not all teh same thing. sa re ga ma pa da ni sa can correspond to a lot of different combinations of notes depending on the context. It may be hard for you to understand this, but sa re ga ma changes from song to song.
finally hers a typical "sa re ga ma" tab you might likely find:
E--------------7-8------
B-----5-6-8-9-----------
G-5-6-------------------
D-----------------------
A-----------------------
E-----------------------
thats assuming you can read tabs.
If you learn to ask the correct question, you are half way towards the answer!

8. ### dharmatmaBanned

dude..u need to have a look at the lessons out here and then post ur queries..or do a search ..many questions are already answered bfore.

peace man..and good luck on learnin guitar.

9. ### FiXXXeRNew Member

hey thanx man......do tell me the formulae of other scales and as u say a scale can be formed on a single string then why a 6 string scale?i saw the scales on cyberfret.com....dude help me out coz this theory is jus going above my head.thanx

10. ### dennisThe Bhangra King

hmm..i just know major and minor scales..and pentatonics, so i wudnt be able to tell u lots of formulae.
personally, i think u dont need to know 1000 scales but know a few scales "well"

Anyways to the second part i can answer.
scales are just a sequence of notes, u can play em either on a single string opr on 6 strings.
y play over 6 strings:
1. it more practical..eg. for a cmajor scale to go from say c to g ud have to make a jump.(if u wanna go higher i.e.)..so u got 6 string pattern.
2. single string scales are in a single ocatave, 6 string one span many octaves..hence to get variety in the sound.
both single and 6 string patterns are used...depends on what u wanna do.

11. ### acousticNew Member

Tone/Semi-Tone

Agree with Dennis,
but you may sometime find Full and Half referenced as Tone and Semi-Tone

13. ### deathdr_87Awesome Guitarist

dont worry too much abt scales... jstu know the major scale..

if u take the sixth note of the major scale and play the same scale - u get the minor scale of that major
for example:
c major: C D E F G A B C
6th note: A

so play the same sequence of notes starting from A to give u the A minor:
A minor: A B C D E F G A

Now you can sit and figutre it all ut in terms of those intervals and all..

14. ### ronnieanandn00bier th@n th0u

Nice topic.

Hey Fixxxer, when you refer to Sa, Re, Ga, Ma, ... you haven't referred to which Raaga you are talking about. Sa and C are not exactly the same. I wouldn't compare the Raaga straight away with scales but rather with modes.
When you Sa, Re, Ga, Ma, these are available notes
Sa, Re1, Re2, Ga1, Ga2, Ma1, Ma2, Pa, Dha1, Dha2, Ni1, Ni2, Sa. Something like Flats and Sharps. Sa and Pa dont have it's twin.

Sa, Re2, Ga2, Ma1, Pa, Dha2, Ni2, Sa is a Major scale. It doesn't say whether it's C Major or D Major. I'd rather call this a Major Scale or an Ionian Scale. On Raaga this is a proper Shankaraa Bharanam. People even refer to this raaga as sounding western. So your interval theory of WWH -H- WWH for the major or Ionian scale holds good for Sa, Re, Ga,.. exactly for Shankaraa Baranam raaga.

With my guess, the Sa, Re, Ga, Ma you reffered to is of Maaya Maalava Gowla raaga which goes like
Sa, Re1, Ga2, Ma1, Pa, Dha1, Ni2, Sa. The interval for this is HWWWH(W+H)H. (W+H) meant 1 1/2 steps. The scales you compared with like Major, Minor, Blues, Pentaonics dont have this interval. That's why you had a feeling that it didn't sound like our Indian counter part. If you want to compare modality with it, it's actually a Phrygian Scale with a Sharpenned seventh.
Phrygian Scale: H W W W H W W
Maaya M.G : H W W W H (W+H) H

The last interval is to reach the next octave. If you noticed, the only change is a sharpenned 7th for the Raaga. Play this Phrygian Scale with a sharpenned seventh and you'd be convinced. Again tonality doesn't bother here. You playing modified Phrygian starting from C, D, E or anything you like, you'd be convinced that it does sound like what you wanted.

Pentatonics are oly 5 note scale.
Let's look at a 5 note Raaga. This is called Mohanam. The Raaga goes like
Sa, Re2, Ga1, Pa, Dha2, Sa; Sa, Dha2, Pa, Ga1, Re2, Sa. Actually there's an ascend and descend in every raaga. Lets compare the intervals for this raaga. It's W, W, (W+H), W, (W+H). You play this raaga and you already knew it as a scale. Voila, it the Major Pentatonic Scale. Again it's only the modality that matters, not the tonality. So you play C Major Pentatonic or D Major Pentatonic it just would sound the same.

Raaga are pretty interesting because there are many Raagas where the ascend is different from the descent. The scale or modes dont have it that way

Hope you aren't bogged down with unncessary information.

15. ### Nayan.:Humblebee Jumble:.

@ronnieanand... great info...

"I wouldn't compare the Raaga straight away with scales but rather with modes." now what do you mean by this... could you please elaborate ... I am a naught at music theory...

16. ### ronnieanandn00bier th@n th0u

When you refer to scales, it consists of 2 elements. One is tonality and the other is modality. Tonality is with reference to the sound and modality is the intervelic pattern. Consider a major scale. The modality is the same which means the internallic difference is always WWH-W-WWH irrespective of whatever root the scale may take. But as you change the root, the key changes or the sound or the tonality changes. C Mjor, D Maor, F Major all sound different, so they are of different tonality but of same modality. If you take a C Major Scale and it's relative minor A minor scale. Both of these have the same notes. So they are tonally the same but modally different. That's why it even sound like a different scale inspite of playing the same notes. Since Sa in Sa, Re, Ga, Ma did not match exactly to C, then how would you link it to it's western counterpart. So I compared them with modality rather than tonality. I could be totally wrong. It's just my interpretation. I myself am an almost zero is both of these music both by theory and practice.

17. ### ^^_Fr|3nD_^^New Member

A Scale has 8 Positions In All .. n 18 Notes In It .. For Example For G Major Scale

G A B C D E F# G .. That Natural G Major Scale n Second Poistion Of The Scale n Further It Is Ionian MODE Alsoo ..

First Position Of G Major Scale Is

F# G A B C D E F#

2nd Postion (Natural Position Or Very Much Known Postion Of Major Scales)

G A B C D E F# G

And So On ..
And The Whole Major Scale On One Octave Would Be

G A B C D E F# G A B C D E F# G A B C ( 18 Notes)

Further .. For Beginners .. Thoeritically U Must Have To have Idea Of Creating Chords Frm .. Or how They have Formed

Just Take a Major Scale Further Take Major Scales

1st note Which Is Root note , Harmonic Major 3rd Note , n Fifth .. Is Ur Major Scale .. Lets Work It FOr For Chords now ..

For G Major Chord

Natural G Major Scale

G A B C D E F# G Take 1st , 3rd n Fifth note .. Which R

G B D .. This Is ur G Major Chord ..

For C major

C D E F G A B C Taking 1st , 3rd n Fifth note

C E G .. This Is C Major Chord .. but In Open Postion U Actually Don't hold All Three Notes .. V holds .. 2 C's n One E

n Plays .. G Open In this Chord .. Check It Out ..

Exercises .. r Take a Sheet .. Write Major Scales n Create There Major Chords .. n Same For minor Chords .. n Most Of The Things R Derived Frm basic Scales .. Beginners Like Me .. Should Have To b Aware Of All These Stuff ..