Electric guitar + tube amp -- newbie -- about 40k

Discussion in 'Guitar Gear Talk Forum' started by dragonball, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. dragonball

    dragonball New Member

    Electric guitar + tube amp -- newbie -- about 20k

    Hi

    I am a complete newbie and its about time i start learning guitar. I dont want to start with acoustic but with electric.

    Tone i want: Joe Satriani's Whispering a prayer, power cosmic 2000 (part1)
    Basically smooth but not too sharp tone (flying a blue dream is a bit too sharp for me)

    What equipments will i need to achieve closest possible tone (which tube amp, which guitar, any processor?) Spending could extend a little beyond 40k.

    Thanks.
     
  2. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    Wow, you must be LOADED if you want to -start- learning with a 40K budget...

    What do you do for a living, mate? Please don't think I'm being deliberately malicious here... Just curious.
     
  3. dragonball

    dragonball New Member

    i worked for few years and saved a lot spending just on bare necessities of life.
    And i am thinking here that its a 1 time investment that will keep me going for about 10-15years without further investing single penny further. Please let me know if that is not so.
     
  4. flood

    flood New Member

    hmmmm

    it's not really THAT much if you think about it as a one-time investment, especially if you're living and purchasing in india. kudos to you for being ballsy enough and declaring that you want an all-tube amp right from the start. however, your options here are extremely limited; you would have to take your money to the states.

    for satch, i think you can't really go wrong with an ibanez. you will have to look at pickup upgrades eventually. i would suggest staying away from processors and looking into one distortion pedal and one overdrive, perhaps the DS-1 and the TS9DX reissue, or whatever suits your amp.

    for the amplifier... this is difficult territory, especially with your budget constraints. would you want to buy it here?

    EDIT: whispering a prayer is by steve vai, not satch.

    my tip: look for used gear. i think you can snag some great stuff within your budget that way, and be ok for a long time to come.
     
  5. rickkkyrich

    rickkkyrich Guest

    @dragonball: before investing this much of cash learn to play first..
    @flood: dude will he be able to manage with analog pedals as a n00b...
     
  6. flood

    flood New Member

    definitely. analog pedals are a lot simpler to work with than processors, IMO, and REALLY help you get an idea of what a good tone is. of course, at the end of it all, your amp has the final say. i was a complete n00b when i decided to go in for analog pedals (i've NEVER owned a processor except for a dedicated delay modeller, as well as a modulation modeler which sucked though so i sold it after the first time i played it). also, bck then i had zero knowledge of electronics and barely understood how a guitar worked.

    the kind of dynamics, harmonic content and cleanup you get with an overdrive into a cranked amp is not something you're going to get on a cheap proc.

    disagree with your first comment. the man has worked towards putting the money together with a specific aim, i think it's cool if he wants to go ahead and live out the dream. someone i know started with electric skipping acoustic completely, and his first guitar was a mexican strat. he's an excellent player now, with a lot of versatility. great tone too. hard work made up for the lack of raw talent there. so it's all about the focus and dedication. if you really want it... go out and get it!

    i do have a comment though: dragonball, please watch some better animes!
     
  7. thehundredthone

    thehundredthone New Member

    Why, because unless you start on a Givson you can't reach your true potential? There's no better way than to start with great gear. Your instrument will never become a sticking point in your learning.

    If anything, an analog pedal is much easier to use than a digital one. Ask a "n00b" to use the G2.1u with it's amazing 2 digit LCD display.
     
  8. rickkkyrich

    rickkkyrich Guest

    you guys maybe correct but i've seen people who bought nice expensive guitars in haste and ended up selling them within an year... learning guitar needs a lot of patience and you all wud agree with that...

    and i never said to go for a givson ..better for him is to buy some nice used stuff and learn to play with that first rather than putting all the money at once.. i also did the same thing ... correct me if i'm wrong..
     
  9. dragonball

    dragonball New Member

    Ok now ricky is making me believe that i should start to learn first. If i go that way, i think i should go for some 'used' stuff.
    Ricky can you suggest something within 20k then? Tone should be good though, i hate anything thats too harsh/death-metallic on ear.
     
  10. rickkkyrich

    rickkkyrich Guest

    i'd better leave that for pros to answer..
     
  11. flood

    flood New Member

    i think - quite honestly - that there is some sort of flawed thinking that says that you should pick up shite gear or cheap gear first.

    the reason most people do this is because on average, people start out young, and simply do not have the funds to invest in good equipment. that's the only reason i see. heck, if i had 40k when i'd started out, i would never have bought a furtados acoustic. i'd have picked up something a lot more expensive then.

    if anything, a good guitar will be a lot more enjoyable to play and possibly help speed up the process. instead of spending the money on a brand new cheapass guitar that can't stay in tune, i'd put it into a used guitar in good condition. don't be afraid to buy used guitars - they aren't perishable goods, and minor problems can be fixed by a good setup job. a badly made guitar will show its flaws after a while - neck twist, bad solder joints, flaky paint, intonation problems etc.

    finally, if you decide to quit after all, remember this - better equipment will ALWAYS have better resale value than crap stuff. always. if you baby your equipment, your relative loss at the point of sale will be substantially lower with a good guitar than with a nasty one.

    if you can, i'd recommend starting with a tube amp, the way all our guitar gods did. no point buying a good guitar and then pairing it with a lousy amp. so stick to 40k but make sure you allow for an amp there.

    as for how easy it is to learn to play: that's totally in your hands. it's your discipline and dedication, and not your gear, that makes all the difference here.
     
  12. rickkkyrich

    rickkkyrich Guest

    i had somebody selling his Ibanez S470 for 20k some time back... but i guess he had sold it.. somethin like that wud work for you..
     
  13. dragonball

    dragonball New Member

    well, consulted some friends too, they also say i should go for a 'easy to play' guitar first. So i think i should rather go for a 20k setup now.

    @rickey: S470 is said to be a guitar for advanced player as i have heard. Can you name some 2nd HAND easy to play guitars, which also stay in tune for long time? ~20k
     
  14. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    I don't want to judge someone else's level of dedication or learning capacity, but the reason you start off with something a little less expensive is because learning guitar needs quite a bit of commitment and not everyone is able to continue with it... If the guy had a couple of months of guitar playing experience it would be different. If you're a complete blank, you never know what will happen once you actually pick up the instrument. And if you find out that playing the guitar is not for you (too much effort, not enough time, got bored or whatever) it's better if you've spent 2k on it than 50k... Even with resale thrown in a 50k instrument will depreciate more than a 10k instrument, that's for sure. Really hurts to waste your hard earned money like that. Making the first instrument cheap is like renting an apartment before buying it... See how playing the guitar works out for you before you commit to it.

    Then again if this guy is THAT committed and THAT confident that he'll definitely do it at any cost... Then buying expensive gear might be ok (Also if he's really loaded and 40k is what he spends on dog food every month). Think about it before buying, in my humble opinion.

    Also thinking of stuff like tone before learning even to pick a string seems to me like preparing for Wimbeldon when you've just bought your first tennis racket and don't even know the rules. A beginner should keep things uncomplicated and build concepts first, build knowledge and skills layer by layer and dump advanced stuff on a foundation of basics instead of mixing it all in a cement mixer. Maybe you should buy just a guitar and amp now, and wait until you've learnt a little more (instrument theory, rhythm, common chords/scales, basic technique, a little music theory etc) before going for effects pedals or processors to enhance your playing.

    That's just my point of view as a beginner\intermediate player...
    May not match what the Gurus say... Well the final choice really depends most of all on how committed you are and how much is the 40k worth to you.
     
  15. dragonball

    dragonball New Member

    ^ i am agreeing with guitardoctor. i could be having time constraints in near future. its better to go for cheaper substitutes 1st and will graduate to costlier equipments in future. Shall i begin with acoustin then? Suggest me.
     
  16. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    In that case, buy a Yamaha C70 (the total, with accessories, shouldn't go over 6k at worst), go to a Trinity/ABRSM school near you, learn classical guitar till the three diploma grades, and then think of going anywhere near an electric. You'll know all there is to know about 'basics', playing, articulation, tone, and so on, by then. This is the 'extreme guitardoctorist' way. =P

    (Edit, by then you'll actually have amassed lakhs. Sweet. Go buy the half stacks and custom guitars players 'round here always dream of. xD)
     
  17. rickkkyrich

    rickkkyrich Guest

    well now thats misleading... dragonball had already said he wants to play satch and vai stuff.. and u're suggesting him an acoustic ??? how does that make sense..???

    @dragonball: dude there's no point in buying an acoustic.. all i am saying is that u should go for a nice decent electric guitar...maybe u can try out a yamaha pacifica.. will cost u 11-12k for a new one and its a gr8 guitar.. for amp you better stick to ur choice of a tube amp as there's no substitute for that.. and after a couple of month of learning and playing go ahead with the pedals...u can upgrade ur guitar according to ur progress..
    so ur initial investment will be around 25k for guitar and amp..i m considering both new..u can save if u can manage to get some used stuff..
     
  18. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    C'mon, you're just putting words in my mouth. I never meant you should be SCARED of picking up an electric. I was just sharing my POV towards spending MONEY on gear as an utter beginner.

    The first question is - how much can you spend without feeling the pinch?

    Since he has mentioned an intention towards Vai or Satch, he is going to buy an electric, no questions there. I just meant it's probably not that good an idea to throw 40k towards equipment right away. I mean shouldn't you be sure if you really want to do it in the first place? What I'd advise is approximately the same as what Rikky is saying above.

    Again, I'm working on the assumption that 40k is a significant sum of money. If you're pulling craploads of money, ignore this poor peasant's advice.

    The guitardoctorist way is not going to a school, BTW. I'm self taught (books, internet, friendly advice blah blah), never had a guitar teacher and don't intend to have one. But the self teaching has been structured and layered, concept by concept, exactly as I mentioned in the post. I would never give out advice I don't follow myself.
     
  19. dragonball

    dragonball New Member

    @guitardoc: 40k is a lot of money to me. Its years worth of saving. Probably i was a fool to think of spending EVERYTHING once and for all.

    That being said, i am tilting towards pacifica. But which? 112j?
    Also a friend of mine got strat squier from US for INR10k. Hows that compared to pacifica 112?
     
  20. flood

    flood New Member

    depends on which squier. the lowest-end ones (affinity, bullet) are crap, the deluxe series is supposedly a bit better. seems they manufacture in indonesia or something as well now, not just china...

    the pac is a lot better than the bottom-of-the-barrel squiers any day though.

    another topic: i'm not one to give you advice on how to go about learning to play the instrument, but i'll stand by this - unless you're a raw talent and have synesthesia or perfect pitch or something, you will need all of those 10 years to be able to play satch/vai stuff even remotely. there's a reason why those guys are regarded as guitar gods. also, there have been exceptions, but in general - the older you get, the harder it gets. don't take this as discouragement. playing the guitar is a real joy, and make sure you enjoy yourself, regardless of whether you're doing rusty cooley sweeps or playing 3-chord nirvana songs. if you don't enjoy it, there's no point in doing it.
     

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