Carnatic Scales

Discussion in 'Tamil Guitar Tabs - Submit or Request' started by xtreme_skatah, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. xtreme_skatah

    xtreme_skatah New Member

    Hey guys, I'm new to these boards and I'm not sure if this thread is in the right area. Well I'm a metal guitarist and I want to add some carnatic scales into my arsenal (Really weird, but meh). Could someone please post up some scales for me? Thanks.
  2. mylaiexpress

    mylaiexpress New Member

    here you go
    raag shanakarabaranam-c major in western
    raag keeravaani-a minor(harmonic)minor
    raag kalyani-g major
    raag mohanam-arohanam(acending)cdegc avarohanam(decending)cgedc
  3. mylaiexpress

    mylaiexpress New Member

    thts it for now i ll submit many more in the near future!
  4. ronnieanand

    ronnieanand n00bier th@n th0u

    There's a mistake :annoyed: :annoyed:

    Shankarabaranam = Any Major Scale....
    Look at the intervels in both Shankarabaranam and any Major Scale....

    Whoever told you that Sa means C is a big Nut.....In Western, the basic note is A which is defined as 440Hz. In Carnatic, C is the natural pitch of any voice. For a girl, the Sa will be high and for a male it will be low...Even tuning of Carnatic Instruments will be done based on the vocalist's pitch. Even if you take a Shruthi Box, you can see that Sa can be adjusted to your convenience....Everybody dont sing in the same Sa...

    Kalyani = Lydian Scale and not G Major Scale....G Major Scale is also Shankarabaranam Scale starting in G.

    If you notice that Kalayni and Shankarabaranam have the same notes except the M. Shankarabaranam has M1 and Kalyani has M2. M2 means Flattened Fifth, ie. Tritone or Three Tone Intervals from the Root.

    In G major, 3 tones from the G = C#....Which means for a Kalayni C# is the most important note that will differentiate it from Shankarabaranam. So G Lydian would be the right equivalent....

    Mohanam = Major Pentatonic Scale....

  5. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

    ^ But the way Sa re ga ma etc goes, the intervals -> they are similar to C D E ...
  6. ronnieanand

    ronnieanand n00bier th@n th0u

    No....They dont :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:

    Sa....The Root doesn't have any accidentals....Whereas C has an accidental C# :)......You cant really equate it that way....

    And anybody equating Sa = C is a NUT.....

    Plus Carnatic Notes are orgnanized as 16 notes instead of 12 notes like the Western....

    Sa, R1, R2, R3....But R2 and R3 share the same name as G1 and G2 and it depends on the context it's used. Refer to Melakartha Raaga. There's an Algorithm of how Raagas are derived which straight away proves that Carnatic kicks Western's Ass :beer: ....The basic Raagas are 72 which are scientifically and logically placed. Again kicks ass....

  7. .:SpY_GaMe:.

    .:SpY_GaMe:. New Member

    :shock: :eek:: i thought it followed that pattern
    thanks for the info
  8. vignesh90

    vignesh90 New Member

    hey thnx da ya i tottally forgot abt the major .ya u r corrcet major scales are shankarabaranam.any way i ll post the arohanam and avarohanam in the western notations!!any wayz thnx 4 correctin
  9. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening

    While Sa is certainly not a C (not nescessarily anyway), would it be incorrect to equate the Sa to the root note of the major scale?
  10. ronnieanand

    ronnieanand n00bier th@n th0u

    Sa is not the Root of a Major scale....Sa is the Root note for any scale....
    Sa basically means the root....But fixing it to C, E or G is not correct.....

  11. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

    ^ Hmmm so I can sing Sa re ga ma on minor scale too?
  12. ronnieanand

    ronnieanand n00bier th@n th0u

    Yes...It's very interesting here......

    Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Da Ni Sa = Major Scale, Minor Scale, Lydian Scale, Mixlolydian Scale, Dorian Scale, Phryggian, etc......anything damn thing.......

    Sa = Root

    Re1 = Minor 2nd
    R2 = G1 = Major 2nd
    R3 = G2 = Minor 3rd
    G3 = Major 3rd.

    Sa R1 G2 = First three notes in Phryggian or Locrian
    Sa R2 G2 = First three notes in Minor Scale or Dorian
    Sa R2 G3 = First three notes in Lydian, Mixolydian or Major

    So when a Carnatic singer sing, he will still use the same notations Sa Re Ga Ma for all the scales...Of course the notes he sings are different.......

  13. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening

    Then perhaps the closest way to relate Sa Re Ga and any western notation would be Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti...that's what I've tended to do anyway.
  14. ronnieanand

    ronnieanand n00bier th@n th0u

    That's how it was always related....

  15. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

    Cool this is info for me.


    But I used to think that ppl sing Sa Ri Ga Me etc to display the change in scale.
  16. vignesh90

    vignesh90 New Member

    hello baba understand one thing if u r playin in one struthi or transpose c is certainly sa!!but when you change scale you r doin nothin but transposin it !!i think am correct.
  17. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening

    Yes, but to equate Sa to C would still be incorrect. Sa as C is just one instance of many possibilities.
  18. SenseMaker2012

    SenseMaker2012 New Member

    nice talk here... yes, interesting to see, how confusing it becomes if Western thinking and its chromatical octave/chord system meets Indian Classics and the Raga(m) scales.... :) I was educated in Western classics (7-8 years piano + 2-3 years church organ), then I found to Jazz, Flamenco and to Indian Classics...

    One thing I learnt by my own studies about Carnatic/HIndustani... Forget the Western thinking 1st... even words like "modal structure" as we know it in Jazz or the "Western medieval church music" arent really adequate to understand it clearly whats behind the Indian classical music system...

    This "root thing" of Sa is really tricky, mostly I know from Indian maestros that they tune Sa to Eflat (or E)... Ladies tune a half tone higher compared to men. So was the tradition. :)

    What I miss here in this discussion is the aspect of the microtonality. Nowadays the octave from Sa to Sa' (with 7 main notes = swaras) is divided in 22 notes (Shruti-s).
    Did you know, that in earlier times it had been 66 shuris for one octave ?! Yes.... imagine, what the ancient maestros must have studied to understand all the nuances, patterns, ornaments for each singler raga scale and School of Indian music (Gharana) they belonged to !!!!

    Here is a sheet you see that the 22 shrutis are not linear... its important to understand this... Raga CDs of the Months (11/08): Microtones in Hindustani Sangeet – the Microtonal Structure of Indian Ragas. « IMC – India meets Classic presents … ( It seems in this forum its not possible to integrate graphic pics directly).

    Plus: Nowadays there exist less 10 types of ornaments (so called Alankaras) which creates the real beauty of a good raga performance - Raga Cds of the months (09/08-09): Alankaras – 10 types of Raga Ornaments (part 1 & 2) « IMC – India meets Classic presents … .

    I just wanted mention this as its not really senseful to talk about 7 main notes if we look at a raga scale. Anyhow... I am just a small shishya and diving little bit into the ocean of Indian music.... Ali Akbar khan explained that music and its effect onto human body/psych/emotions is created by the pause, music is in between the notes. Further he said: "„The bliss, the joy of Ragas one experiences if one dies for it. Death is the condition for this blessedness..." (fully citiation here: Raga CDs of the months (07/09): Tradition & Modernity – A Tribute to Ali Akbar Khan. « IMC – India meets Classic presents … ).

    Naturally I still do not understand what Ali Akbar want say, its music philosophy hi 5 of a universal dimension. But it makes me curiously to learn more about music and its manner.

    More counts beside all this theory we enjoy listening to music or practising music even we are not on such a high level as Sarod legend Ali Akbar KHan. I am very happy about, that as I am just one day in this forum, to meet "freaks" who really help each other and make it transparent what we call Western and Indian music system...

    Great to be here ! :)
  19. thamboo

    thamboo Member

    Karahapriya has notes similar to Dorian Scale; Dorian Scale has the notes of C major Scale but like D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D (w-h-w-w-w-h-w)
  20. thamboo

    thamboo Member

    harikhambhoji is similar to mixolydian mode

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