Your First DISTINCT Diminished Chord Song (maybe)

Discussion in 'Guitar Lessons, Tutorials & Tips' started by Bandbaaja, Jan 6, 2005.

  1. Bandbaaja

    Bandbaaja Pronounced Band Baaaa Ja

    Your First DISTINCT Diminished Chord Song (maybe)

    Note for beginners:
    LEVEL: You must know major, minor and 7th chords, and the theory on how to get teh notes of those chords.

    The first look at a chord that goes Adim (diminished) or Adim7 or A+ (augmented) gives us the shivers initially. But then there is nothing to worry about, ultimately these are nothing but chords to be played in a given position just like any other chord.
    Of course the main question you ask yourself is
    WHEN will I be able to figure out that some so-and-so song has a C#dim7 chord in such-and-such a place???

    Well the answer again is simple, first play normal chords, and try to figure out normal chord structures on your own. believe me there is NO SUCH SONG that sounds bad because you didnt play a diminished or an augmented chord. But yes, if u do play the right chord at the right place the effect is magical indeed.

    The idea is to accumalate songs which contain such chords, and learn them, so as to distinguish such chords by ear, and them try to search for such chords in songs that you hear.

    One such song is Kisi Ki Muskurahaton Pe Ho Nisaar.
    HEAR the sound properly at the place where the diminished chord is played and you'll notice the difference immediately.
    Difference as in, generally instead of the diminished you would have played a normal chord, see below for details.


    DIMINISHED CHORD BASICS
    (try to understand line by line)

    The basic theory of diminished is to flatten the third note and the fifth note and double flatten the seventh note.
    This is also called the diminished 7th, and if you use only the three notes without the seventh, the chord is also called a half diminished.
    I am referring to a diminished 7th here, that gives the full "HATKE" sound for you to hear.

    Example
    If you take the A major scale the notes are

    1....2....3.....4...5....6.....7....8
    Sa...Re...Ga...Ma...Pa...Dha...Ni...Sa
    A....B....C#...D....E....F#....G#...A

    hence the major chord will be the 1 3 5 notes that is A C# E

    For diminished we flatten 3, flatten 5 and double flatten 7
    therefore we get the chord as

    1....Flat3..Flat5....DoubleFlat7
    Sa.....Ga.....Pa........Ni
    A......C......Eb.......F#

    The best part is if you APPLY this theory on any of the notes appearing in the above chord, you will get the same notes cycle!!!
    Which means the Adim7, The Cdim7, The Ebdim7 and the F#dim7 are all the SAME CHORD!!! and since there are only 12 notes in music and since this chord is made of 4 notes, it means that there will be only 3 DIMINISHED CHORDS, each having its 4 pointers

    So there is
    1) Adim7 which is also the Cdim7, the Ebdim7 and the F#dim7
    2) Bdim7 which is also the D#dim7, the Fdim7 and the G#dim7
    3) C#dim7 which is also the Edim7, the Gdim7 and the A#dim7
    That covers all the notes!!!

    Our song has the Fdim7 chord and ONE of the position on the fretboard is like this

    E...A....D....G....B...E
    ================
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |---|---|---|---|---|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |---|---|---|---|---|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....F....|....D....|
    |....|...(1)...|...(2)..| The number indicates the finger
    |---|---|---|---|---|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....|....B....|...Ab
    |....|....|...(3)...|..(4)
    |---|---|---|---|---|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |....|....|....|....|....|
    |---|---|---|---|---|



    Kisi Ki Muskurahaton Pe Ho Nisaar - from ANARI
    KEY = Cm


    ...Kisi ki muskurahaton pe ho nisaar
    Cm......................................Cm..

    ...Kisi ka dard le sake to le udhaar
    Cm....................................Fm..

    ...Kisi Ke Vaaste ho tere dil mein pyaar
    Fm.........................................Fdim7.. *** HEAR THIS

    ...Jeena isi ka naam hai
    Fdim7....................Cm..



    Antra

    Maana apni jeyb se fakir hain
    Cm.................................. [notes G C D D#]

    Phir bhi yaaron dil ke hum ameer hain
    Cm............................................. [notes C D# G#(high) G ]

    ...Ke mar ke bhi kisi ke kaam aayenge
    Cm...........................................Cm..

    ...Kisi ki aasuon mein muskurayenge
    Cm.........................................Fm..

    ...Tumhe to ho na ho hamein to aitbaar
    Fm...........................................Fdim7..

    ...Jeena isi ka naam hai
    Fdim7....................Cm..


    CHEERS
    any problems PM me
     
  2. DesiPride143

    DesiPride143 BEHAVE!

    very nice dude,, but i think u posted it into a wrong forum...post it in Tutorial forum...
     
  3. bob-bobby

    bob-bobby Extinct or Banned!

    good post , ..

    thread moved to tutorials ...
     
  4. Bandbaaja

    Bandbaaja Pronounced Band Baaaa Ja

    The idea started with the song, and then went into the tutorial mode
    and by the time i realized it, I had clicked on Submit.
    I suppose the moderators can move it appropriately?
     
  5. Subhro

    Subhro Argentina lost :"(

    fantastic post dude !

    Hi bandbaaja.. :)

    :nw: :nw:

    i wud beg 2 differ frm the rest...
    i dont think its a good post..

    its a vry vry good post :)

    keep postin such tutorials in random..
    dont wait 4 ny1 2 ask u.. like i askd 4 the dim stuff..

    nywayz gr8 post dude.. helpd me a lot..
    i havnt learnt guitar the way 1 shud.. like u did..
    one fine day a frnd of mine in the hostel just taught me how 2 play the chords.. maj & min. & thats the only lesson i hav received in guitars :eek:: so my basics r .....err.... i mean... no basics at all :eek:: 4 me. thats y some of the elementary stuff that u were talkin abt like flattening stuff & gatherin notes went over my head.. but still i understood what u were tryin 2 say somewhat..
    i'm lookin fwd 2 playin more songs with dims & 7ths in them.. let me know of ny such songs that comes 2 ur mind where it has the dim & 7th stuff.. i'll try 2 figure out..

    & abt postin in the wrong forum.. i guess once u realize that u can go 2 ur post & edit it.. where there is an option 4 deleting the entire thrd.. u can copy the contents again & post them in the right forum.. howevr thats my funda.. :) no basics.. :p:

    nywayz.. gr8 post once again & let me know of ny such songs that i askd u abt.. dont giv the chords.. i'll try & figure it out. :Lighten: thnx a lot.. & keep posting such tutorials..

    bye tk cre..
    Subhro.. lolz.. my post is almost as big as urs :p:
     
  6. jayswami

    jayswami Blue J

    cool excellent post gave 5 stars

    talk a bit more about half dim or dim-5 chord.
    where u dont double flat the 7th.. these resolve the same as m6 chords.. but r still different.. could u do that?

    i will give u a cool song to discuss music theory.. duniya mein.. logon ko.. monica o darling song..


    Jay
     
  7. Bandbaaja

    Bandbaaja Pronounced Band Baaaa Ja

    Thanks Jay, and Subhro

    Actually I didnt learn formally either (if youre interested here is the story)

    I visited one of my relative's house one day and saw a guitar without strings and a cobweb in the round-hole hanging at his place, He got depressed when I asked him if it is a real guitar or a show piece. He handed it to me and asked me to make some good use of it. I used to be in total HARD ROCK / METAL stuff those days and would take teh guitar and mockrock all day, Then a Kishore Kumar fan and a great friend of mine dragged me to his orchestra guitarist's house and that sweet person taught me for FREE. It was pretty informal, chord theory, scales and then songs.
    Thats how I started appreciating our great HINDI film music
    I picked up Mel Bay on my own, and that improved my writing skills for TIMING etc.

    ITS NEVER TOO LATE TO LEARN ANYTHING NEW, JUST BE SHAMELESS TO ASK
    Thats my policy
     
  8. Bandbaaja

    Bandbaaja Pronounced Band Baaaa Ja

    My major complicated chords theory came with great help from a dear friend and the lead guitarist of my rock band SAROSH.
    Sarosh plays superb metal and rock and his favorites are Van Halen, Iron Maiden and Nuno Bettencourt to name a few.

    Sarosh plays with Asha Bhosle, Shaan and has also played with the likes of Dr. L. Subramaniam & Trilok Gurtu.

    OK, why I am saying all this is because, anytime you guys have a question or song to be answered and you desperately need I am sure I can ask Sarosh.

    Sarosh cannot join the forum as of because he doesnt access the net too much...
     
  9. jayswami

    jayswami Blue J

    cool.. i never had the opportunity to learn from anyone.. i just learn from tapes and cds and mp3s and internet :)
     
  10. bob-bobby

    bob-bobby Extinct or Banned!

    wow, bandbajja - but i think even you were determined to learn guitar !!

    prob , was ur hidden passion then !!
     
  11. guitarguru

    guitarguru New Member

    Awesome post!
     
  12. Bandbaaja

    Bandbaaja Pronounced Band Baaaa Ja

    thank you all for the wonderful response
     
  13. Bandbaaja

    Bandbaaja Pronounced Band Baaaa Ja

    will surely post some more advanced level stuff, not necessarily chords or songs, some tips on live playing or some experiences etc
     
  14. Subhro

    Subhro Argentina lost :"(

    sure... waitin 4 those dude.. :)
     
  15. Sanjay Mazumder

    Sanjay Mazumder ~..::MASTERMIND::..~

    I support learning Guitar in a classical way coz a person learning Guitar classically can play everything......from Bhajans to heavy metal. I never got a chance to learn that way but now although I can play a little bit, I'm thinking to start it again from the beginning in a classical way.

    By the way, it's an excellent post, bandbaaja.
     
  16. sayanakaharry

    sayanakaharry Forum Leader

    The song "You took my heart away" courtesy MLTR also has a very nice and beautiful use of the augmented chord.
     
  17. Rey1970

    Rey1970 New Member

    so its safe to say diminished chords are minor triads !!!!
     
  18. deathdr_87

    deathdr_87 Awesome Guitarist

    @rey:
    no diminished chords are not minor chords.

    in fact they dont even share athe same triad.

    there are 4 triads:
    major, minor, diminshed and augmented.

    Major:
    R, Major 3rd, perfect 5th

    Minor:
    R, minor 3rd (flattened major 3rd), perfect 5th

    Augmented:
    R, major 3rd, augmented 5th (sharpened perfect 5th)

    Diminished:
    R, minor 3rd, diminished 5th (flattened perfect 5th)

    differnce between dimished and minor is that a diminished consists of a flattened 5th
     
  19. Rey1970

    Rey1970 New Member

    I said min. triad ,the diminished sign refers to the 5th of a chord ,so we can say
    DIMINISHED chords are minor triads with a lowered or flatted 5th, to prove my statement for instance>a Bdim chord is a Bm chord(B-D-F#) with a lowered 5th(B-D-F) right ;) you got Bdim7 but I'll do a post on those chords later(p.s >thats y the song posted by Bandbaaja in a min. key contain that dim7chord because it carries the min. tonality)
     
  20. deathdr_87

    deathdr_87 Awesome Guitarist

    dude the word triad means 3 notes - 1st, 3rd and 5th - im sorry but ur going to have to do some reading up on triads...

    and no im sure that theyre diff triads... read my post...

    there are 4 triads - sure the dim chords are similar in tone to minor chords but they essentially form their own triad...

    do some reading on this
     

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