u know there really is nothing wrong with playing out the melody of the song... if ppl like it then y not play it??? but thena again even the hindi songs i paly have nice rhythms... liek strings.. etc... i dont play much else so i wouldnt play melody lines... theres no way im playing the vocal line of slayer megadeth etc neways!!!!
the qustion is this.. what r they tryin to ahcive by playin the vocal melodies? playing the vocal melodies with the right human expressions is the toughest thing in the world if u ask me... are they trying to perfect that? in anycase the objective of this thread is to fiure out.. what drives them to attempt playing the vocals the first place.
illiteracy is high in india....i believe this is reason why any music instrument player is not given any appreciation and is better off having a thankless attitude. i mean ...look, like guitarguru said, when a movie is hit...mostly the actor and actresses are appreciated, not (in the most cases) director or any one who is behind the camera. in the west, if a movie is hit, each and every cast and crew of dat movie gets the honour(in the most cases). this is not wat happens in india(in most cases)...ppl appreciate and make singer as a king bcoz they r showed as a king. if u take a notice mostly in old hindi melodies, the great stress is on the vocals...than the music itself which is not dat distinct and different frm other songs. however, wid guys like a.r.rahman (and jayswami . music has become an important contribution.
^^^ thats right,whether its a movie or the song,only the mian person is appretiated.... everyone appretiates only the singer,and hardly anyone cares for the instrument players.. it happened with me...i used to play only my keyboard and guitar in my band...but a never got any recognition from the audience until i started to sing.... like jay has said,its indian mentality,and you cant change the minds of one billion ppl... its better to go with the croud...... but if you want to go against the flow,you need real substance and a lot of courage...... i sound like a philosopher
Jay you are absolutely mistaken. From a carnatic perspective, there are so many instrumentalists that have made it big. I have no idea what you are talking about. In a concert, where a vocalist sings, and the violinist and mridangist "accompany", they cannot overshadow the main performer. If the same violinist performs solo, he is the main highlight of the show. The mridangist accompanies him.. If the mridangist plays a solo, lets say, zakir hussain on tabla, then he is the main highlight. We have produced great instrumentalists, MSG, Lalgudi Jayaraman, L Shankar, Tiruchy Shankaran to name a few. Jay, if you go for a kutcheri and intently watch the pattern that is followed, you will understand that the violinist is given equal importance. When the vocalist finishes singing aalapanai, the violinist gets his/her go, and the same for anything, kalpanaswaram, or RTP. Ofcourse the main show is of the vocalists. Why do instrumentalists prefer accompanying artists as opposed to going solo could be a valid question . The answer is the skill that it takes to accompany someone is much higher than what is necessary to play solo. Solo playing is not diffucult. Good practice and the concert is a breeze. Not knowing what song the person is singing, or what formula they will use, but yet being quick enough to reproduce the same on stage is what excites most instrumentalists. If you want to blame someone, blame the illiterate audience we have in India. When the vocalist sings aalapanai, all intently listen, but when the violinists turn comes up, they all go for a washroom break. When the mridangist plays tani avarthanam, it becomes a tea break for everyone. The tea stalls are set just in time to serve bhajjis and bhondas. The artists are given a chance, however the indian audience is yet to understand the intricacy of carnatic music. With people like you criticizing carnatic music jay, I really feel sorry for the rest of the Indian mass who has no knowledge at all about music. Dont be biased and think with an opened mind
^^^ thats exactly my point. in carnatic, its essentially solo.. everyone takes turn doing solo so that people can notice. arrangement and instrumentation an accompanyment takes back seat. in western classical music, accompanyment has higher importance. multi piece harmony, stringgs arrangement etc etc.. people are trained to listen and appreciate such things. but in indian music its always the soloist.. and i do blame the indian audience all the time too. and going beyong carnatic music... harini can u tell me who played guitar for churaliya,dum maro dum ? i bet u dont know. or instruments for 100s of other songs in madras and bombay movie industry. only vocalist gets credit. thats the curse of carnatic and hindustani music for u. Jay P.S: churaliya , dum maro dum and 100s of other cool hindi guitar pieces were played by bhupinder singh the vocalist, who is as good a guitarist as vocalist
aah jay,, u cant compare apples with oranges. If you compare film music with western music, maybe you have a point. you cant compare carnatic music though. although you can play songs together, how do you expect the violin player to know what kalpana swaram the vocalist is going to sing. You're missing the whole picture here jay. Its about creativity.
well one reason is its hard to figure out chords for Indian film songs easily (as compared to most western music) and Indian vocals HAVE a melody, but what melody do rock songs gave? How will you play "so close no matter how far" on the guitar? everybody wants to play something in the beginning that'll make them happy, and melody is the easiest to achieve that. that encourages them to continue playing guitar. What differentiates a good student of guitar from a bad one is how soon and how much of a transition they make from playing simply melody to chords and scales and stuff.
"multi piece harmony, stringgs arrangement". there you go jay..answer to your question... Carnatic music is not "planned" as western/film music is. Which is probably why u cant see ten thousand violinists playing the same piece. At the same time..if you ever go for a bharathanatyam concert, observe how synchronized the orchestra is. This is possible because they can plan exactly what they want to sing, where the instrumental pieces come and so forth. Compare apples with apples, and oranges with oranges. Do not criticize music that you do not understand.
When I started.... My teacher .....who was a classical guy.....wanted me to learn sa re ga ma......so i quit it....cause it didn't help me one bit to accompany a song......same happened with a couple of my friends....learnimg sa re ga ma on guitar is so boring.... yet most people think it is the most essential part to be a good instrument player....if u can't play the notes.... u r dumb....what the hell is that?.....that's what frames the mind set....most of the guys who probably go to guitar classes r taught this way so they naturally ask for the tabs and not the chords.........my neighbour doesn't know what's sa and re on any instrument....but he can play flute, harmonium, guitar, organ, tabla and what not..... In my opinion u don't need to know sa re ga ma..... at all to appreciate good music....if it's good...u'll like it....but people think if u can't play a note when told it's name..... u r a good-for-nothing player...
You're trying to read sentences without learning the alphabet... Learn in the way you are supposed to, and music is yours. If you try and take the short cut, you will be half baked like the rest.
sorry erendi, I beg to differ I feel you definitely need to know sa re ga ma (or CDEF or whatever.. notation is not important). Its important to know what a note is, what a scale is, what an interval is, and THUS what a chord is, instead of a chord as some enigmatic pattern on the fretboard. you might by now know what these patterns mean, but I would hate to teach a beginner just x02220 is A and u memorize it and play it. I definitely think teaching any instrument (even percussion) must begin with the note and not some standard riff you can reproduce blindly.
OK...OK...Now that I've finally got what I wanted when I started....(i.e. play and sing any....well almost any song....at the same time) I might give it a try....but really... music theory is too boring....But I still like classical music a lot....
lol..theres nothing about music thats boring erendi. If you had learnt music the proper way, you would have known this. Another reason to go back to your music teacher
Y do beginers wanna learn melody lines? the answer is simple...to show off!!! what else...if they play backing chords to some song then it wudnt as impressive to some ignorant fool as playing the vocals would. Thats it, period.
