Discussion in 'The ChitChat Lounge' started by spydra, Aug 15, 2010.

  1. spydra

    spydra New Member

    2 months away from here and I come back to see this place buzzing with activity and revolutionary ideas.

    Out of curiousity, does anybody here celebrate Independence day? If not, Does anyone feel the need to?
    bjr likes this.
  2. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    Happy Independence Day, Spydra :p

    No, really, I don't see the point. Basically it's what alpha1 says. Democracy means we're stuck in the limits of the 'idiocy of the masses'. We're wasting our freedom, most of us. I wish the world was either anarchy or meritocracy.

    Oh well, I'm an artist enjoying my 95% insulation from society.
  3. rickkkyrich

    rickkkyrich Guest

    hey spydy.. long time dude.. howz studies?
  4. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    Enjoy your freedom to complain, guys... If you were in China they'd cut off your balls for saying that the Communist system isn't good.

    I watched the pianist yesterday. I found that movie incredible. When I looked at the Pianist, all I could think was "Imagine how many thousands and thousands of hours he put into becoming that good. How many hours, days, weeks, years. And one bullet will waste it all. Human life is so fragile, so ****ing easily destroyed, all you work for, all your life may be directed towards one thing and it can be destroyed in one second."

    And that's why, enjoy your freedom, be glad you have an independence day. Enjoy your life of safety and comfort, so that if you want to learn something, or become a better person, you do not need to think twice before applying yourself, because you can be secure in the knowledge that you probably won't die just because some jerk had a bad day and wanted to vent.

    Happy independence day, guys...
  5. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    ^Good point. >.>
  6. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

  7. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    Defeated/irate/annoyed/hmpf/meh -
    >_> <_< >.> <.<
    and giga pissed/epic phail -
  8. flood

    flood New Member

    i quite disagree with guitardoctor.

    the rationale of comparitive analysis with the lowest common denominator is way too flawed for my taste.
  9. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    In what way do you disagree? Like, what's the flaw in the argument? You need to compare your freedom with something... That's obvious... So you think my comparison is unfair? Well, what comparison would you prefer?
  10. horsesmouth

    horsesmouth Active Member

    i dont exclusively celebrate it but place it in high regard. The point is that we dont know how bad it was for the underpriviledged before independence. Now we have it so we question. The only thing is, as goes with any revolutionary thingie, all good ones minus the bad ones give a perfect picture, but this is life, so we gotta take the bad things. Just like satan, we cant kill it but control it and learn to live through it, helping others too.
    The same applies to science and technology, nuclear power and so on. Bad people always existed, we should try not to let them conquer our world, that would not just be the end of independence, but also te end of society.
  11. flood

    flood New Member

    no, i don't. that contradicts the very concept of freedom.

    and if you really need to compare it, taking china, which ranks on the top 20 human rights violators worldwide, is a great fallacy IMO.

    for me, independence day means that we don't need the brits to screw us over, we're quite competent at doing it ourselves.
  12. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    Ah well, pohtayto pohtaato... That works for me.

    BTW, you do realize that China has a billion people... That means that of all the humans living on Earth, 20% live in China.

    That means that ONE FIFTH of human beings live in China.

    I wish I had the time to calculate the % of the world population who lives in political slavery/dictatorships/pseudo democracies (I can't find that kind of statistics on the net and I'll have to calculate it manually) but I'm pretty sure that they would constitute atleast a third of the world's population.


    So yeah, in terms of freedom, one third of the world's population doesn't have any say in what their ruler does.

    Out of the remaining two-thirds, we're freeer than most ( )

    We have our problems, but you need to take the good with the bad.
  13. thehundredthone

    thehundredthone New Member

    Anarchy is for retards. I'm sure you'd enjoy life without rules while your neighbours rape your children.
  14. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    Anarchy = I'd be too concerned taking care of my own interests to be bothered with children. If at all there are children, they're most probably gonna be weapon trained from least the ones with sensible parents will be. xD

    Now, anyone's in to imagine a music-culture-, or rather guitar-culture-based meritocracy? May the best player rule the land and get piled up with paperwork.
  15. flood

    flood New Member

    so does india!

    and by freedom to complain, you're talking about the nice comfort we take in the anonymity of the internet and the inconsequence of facebook forums; i'm not sure raising your voice against e.g. sena/MNS oppression antics in maharashtra, or fighting mayawati in UP would go down particularly well. we represent a very small percentage of the population - i'm not sure the less fortunately born, educated and located citizens enjoy the same freedoms we do.
  16. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    DUH.... A poor homeless guy in US is no free-er than a poor homeless guy in India... The least you can do is be grateful for the freedom you have, privileged that you are. I think it's ridiculous to argue that "Man, people are still starving so why should I be grateful." That is the reason you should be grateful - you're not starving, are you?
  17. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    Anarchy is dumb... And all the little hobbies you enjoy - guitar, music or whatever, you won't have time for that in an anarchy... It was only after man discovered agriculture and developed some sense of specialization that he had the time to sing or draw or whatever. Life, as nature wants it, is short, brutal. Be born, eat, ****, and die. That's it.

    So in an anarchy, you'd probably be too busy staying alive - since you'd need all the skills you currently depend on others for in yourself - to do anything but stay alive.
  18. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    Fine fine fine, I'll support socialism. You guys seriously lack a sense of adventure =|

    ...Lol xD
  19. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    Well, if you want adventure there's still plenty of places to get it, our planet is anything but boring...

  20. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

    OMG, so here we are with wrong portrayal of anarchy.

    Capitalism is the truest form of anarchy.
    Capitalism doesn't allow your neighbors to rape you kids, while you are note there.
    What it does it that via a series of evolution, it brings in systems that keep the checks in place.

    Increasing crime rate?
    Anarchy would make all those who are against it come together - and initiate steps to prevent it (something like personal security).
    Increasing unemployement?
    Un employed would huddle toghether to bring about changes in system that makes it more suitable for them to survive.
    OR they can radically remove the existence of the employed to usurp their jobs.

    Very similar to what really happens in nature.
    The fittest survive.

    What does socialism and other "organised" systems (like religion) promote?
    Survival of the weakest.
    Absolutely the opposite of what nature ever intended for the living beings.

    Of course, when we talk about personal issues like (neighbors raping our kids etc), we get swayed - but we forget that:
    1. such instances anyhow happen in the more seemingly benovelent systems, infact when such instances occur, they act mostly with full hands in glove approach with those who are appointed to take care of our securities (the govt, the police, the machinery)

    2. when such instances of crime happen in a free world (or even if there is a feeling that it may occur) - ppl are always free to come up with means to protect themselves. Heck, that is the reason why man (and other animals also) live in communities.

    3. LEts take the worst case - the criminals actually do manage to defeat the "good ppl". What will criminals do among themselves? Ultimately the criminals themselves will get together and decide that certain things are good for everyone and certain things are bad for everyone. And everyone adheres to it - so that everyone survives.

    So instead of relying on a big brotha (who is really no one, but unknowingly appointed by you) to show stick each time you do something wrong (or against the greater good), you rely on your own to determine what really is the "greater good"

    Animals have survived till now being in a state of total anarchy.
    Humans have a greater intellect, and there are no reasons to believe that we cannot happily.

    Yes, what it will do, however, is to filter out those who are not capable of surviving. Probably the very issue that hurt our "human" conscience. But then we rally don't have any. All we do is put up a mask and act as if we have - because the times are good. We get food on time because of some farmer working somewhere. We get water in time, we get medicines in time. You take all that out. Put ppl into the worst times - and you will get to know what percentage is really conscientious.

    I repeat nature does not want conscientious individual - because that makes them weak for survival in the times of need.

    So which side I am with?
    LOL, no one in particular - both have their merits and demerits.
    And ultimately one cycles into another after a period of time.

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