Need help with Advanced Theory

Discussion in 'Beginner's Q&A Forum' started by Johny Bravo, Jun 24, 2006.

  1. Johny Bravo

    Johny Bravo The Boy Genius!

    I have been playing guitar for about 1 year. I know scales, modes and theory, chord constructions & transposing, modifying, extending & stuff. All the general things. My technique is also very good. Now I need some help with:

    1- Making melodies & songs.

    2- Want to know what is the key of a song, and how to determine it.

    3- How to find the keys for chords, or to tell what chord will go well with what without actually trying em out. Like Am, G & F are in one key, but I dunno how?

    4- How to tell what notes go well together, like in major scale, 1st, 5th etc. intervals sound good together.

    Thats all for now. Therez a lot of questions on my mind. Cant remember them all right now. Will post up as they come to my mind. For now, plz explain the above montioned points. Thanks.
  2. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening

  3. Johny Bravo

    Johny Bravo The Boy Genius!

    ^^ Thanks a lot dude. That harmony lesson was a good one, though not directly requested in this thread.

    Ok those threads nailed harmonizing with other instruments/persons/voices/whatever, and the chord keys, realtive minor keys, and other subtle doubts.

    Now the next query is how to make songs. What is their structure? What is a bridge, chorus, stuff like this, and how to use em, or actually make em.
  4. ronnieanand

    ronnieanand n00bier th@n th0u

    And these are not advanced theories...Knowing Mods, Transposing, Modifying and Extending are way advanced than to identify the key of a song or making melodies or knowing hamony theory... It's like saying that you know Calculus but can't add two numbers...
  5. ronnieanand

    ronnieanand n00bier th@n th0u

    Without going much into fundas, I will give you some short cuts to identify keys of a song. It works most of the times unless the song has a mix of scales. It still works but then you will have to be a little more watchful.

    Since you already know all chords, modes and progression, I assume some knowledge from there in this explanation.

    Major Scale Progression = Major Minor Minor Major Major Minor Diminished

    I am not repeating the octave Major after the Diminished.

    The Minor Scale Progression is the same as the above but start from the sixth chord which is a minor and go to the 1st like a cycle and continue. Same is applicable for any mode.

    Major Scale Funda = Tone Tone Semi Tone Tone Tone Semi
    Major Scale Chord = Major Minor Minor Major Major Minor Dimi

    Watch the above Funda and Chord carefully...

    If there are two Major Chords which are consecutive and 1 Tone Apart, then most probably the chords are Lydian and Mixolydian chords or the 4th and 5th of the key. So trace out the root from there and voila, you have the key.

    Example Progression: C Major D Major C Major F# Minor......

    Some ultra cool guitarists would straight away claim it as C Major key 'cos it starts with C. But for C Major, D should be a Minor. But look at my above gyaan of two major chords which are semitone apart and considering this as 4th and 5th, this is C Lydian and D Mixolydian which goes to the key of G Major and see there's not even a single G chord in this progression still the key is G Major.

    Other variations for the same is

    DMajor CMajor DMajor EMinor => G Major Key...and not D Major Key


    If two Minor Chords are a tone apart, then most likely, they are the 2nd and 3rd of progression which means, it's the Dorian and Phyriggian chords.

    Example: Dm Em Dm FMajor => D Dorian => C Major and not D Minor Key


    If there's a Minor and Major Chord a semitone apart with the minor being the smallest alphabetically, there could be two possibilities. Either it's 3rd and 4th or the 7th and Root.

    Example: Em F G Em => E Phryggian, F Lydian => C Major and not E Minor
    Example: Bm C Bm Dm => B Locrian, C Ionian. This is an interesting case. Though B is Diminished, it's not very uncommon to replace the Diminished by the Minor. If you think it's B Minor, then D Minor is out of place, if it were D Major, then it resolves to G Major as you can call it B Phryggian, C Lydian and D Mixolydian but the D is a Minor here, so look at as B Diminshed, C Ionian, and D Dorian which resolves to C Major key.

    Usage of 7th in Chords could be Misleading in Blues Styles Of Music...

    E7 A7 B7 A7

    One of the very common progression. The minute you see a 7th chord like D7 or A7, you could blindly say it's the Mixolydian Chord and resolve it to a different root but the abovel progression then looks like 3 key changes and that too happening at every bar. It's a common practise to play root, 4th and 5ths are 7th chords in a comping fashion and either use the roots mixolydian for soling or use the root's minor pentatonic scale..In the above scale, useage of E Mixolydian and EMinor Pentatonic is very common.

    SRV's Mary Had a Little Lamb is a perfect example with the above chords.
    Hendrix's Purple Haze has chords = E7#9 A B....Compare it with the above progression, E7 is replaced with E7#9. The #9 is added for a typical flavour but it still is a 7th chord. Instead of playing the A and B as sevenths, he just plays them straight as Major Chords. The solo goes on in the key of E Minor. If you fail to watch this, then you will look at as A and B as two major chords that are tone apart and resolve them as A Lydian and B Mixolydian which resolves to the key of E Major where the song gets resolved as E Minor. Since it retains the Major Flavour by using all major chords, you can use E Major too if used skillfully. E Minor is anyway there, Since E7 is also a chord, you could play E Mixolydian too.. Best fun is to Mix all three of them are play. You should be getting a scale that is more than 7 notes and you can have a lot of fun but it's not for the faint hearted. Since you are already good in modes and playing, you should try mixing all these three scales.
    Guitar boy, Johny Bravo and vini like this.
  6. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

  7. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

    Check this out.
    It contains most of teh points mentioned here graphically (which is lot easier to remember)
  8. ambush

    ambush _RASTA_man_

    great lesson

    didnt get the funda of the diagram
  9. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

    That diagram = your fret board.
    The vertical lines = your frets
    The space between horizontal lines = your strings.

    If you will observe, all teh chords in your scale will lie in the pattern I showed.

    Anyway, if you got what Ronnie said, then no need to rack your mind on the diagram. It is the same thing. ;)
  10. Johny Bravo

    Johny Bravo The Boy Genius!

    Wow ronnie dude! Till now i thought u were just another spammer.. Great work! Thanks man! Reps. Post something about making a song, and its structure & construction. Thanks all.
    Guitar boy likes this.
  11. Guitar boy

    Guitar boy New Member

    Reps to Ronnie

    :shock: I will give reps to you, for this.
  12. Johny Bravo

    Johny Bravo The Boy Genius!

    ^^ Lolz man thanks! Ignorance is really a bliss!!!!
  13. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

    @Guitar_boy: how does it bother you?
  14. himanshu_bits

    himanshu_bits New Member

    gr8 stuff dude....
    it helped me a lot in increasing my qualities
  15. Guitar boy

    Guitar boy New Member

    oh no.. it doesn't bother me in anyway!

  16. ronnieanand

    ronnieanand n00bier th@n th0u

    @Guitar Boy....You are signing in my name :shock: :shock:

    @Alpha1.....Why wont you grow up....That Guitar Boy dude is not me :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:
  17. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

    when did I say guitarboy = ronnieanand?

    I jsut asked him why he was "pissed".
  18. ronnieanand

    ronnieanand n00bier th@n th0u

    You said or you meant it :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:
  19. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!


    Now why did Guitarboy signoff using your ID?
  20. ronnieanand

    ronnieanand n00bier th@n th0u

    That's bcos of you :aggre: :aggre: :aggre:

Share This Page