More Questions!!!

Discussion in 'The ChitChat Lounge' started by kaiser, Mar 12, 2004.

  1. kaiser

    kaiser Bored

    All right....nice answers, these...... (im talking abt the q's i posted sometime ago)

    i, however, still have some confusions.


    Q1.

    when i asked what a chord is i didnt wanna know the rudimentary stuff...as in i know its a combo of two (thanks prash for that) or more notes plays together.

    what i wanna know is why we need em in a song? just to make it sound good? or something else...?

    who first came up with this idea of chords? its a great thing man! why aint he or she credited with this discovery/invention?

    donno why i got this grudge against chords...

    :confused:

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    Q2. what is the method of assigning chords for a song?

    suppose i take the first line of papa kehte hain, which goes like this....


    e e d c c d e c f e c#
    e ---0--0---------------------------------1---0------------
    b -----------3--1--1------------------1----------2---------
    g ----------------------------0---2--------------------------
    d -----------------------------------------------------------

    C Am
    papa kehte hain
    F G
    bada naam karegaa

    ......how on earth did chord c come there in the beginning?

    chord c is played till notes e e d c are played, then it changes.
    what is the relation between the chord c and the notes e,e,d,c?

    i dont think any of this is there in the beginners q and a forum...
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Q3. this is for prash....

    remember its hypothetical.....all this shit is hypothetical anyway.

    u said that if we multiply the frequency of a note with 2^1/12 you get the freq of the next note. now mathematically, doesnt that mean you can have any number of notes ? forget 2^1/12

    all we have to do is change the frequency...

    just like numbers....
    we can have any number of numbers between 1 and 2, stating from 1.000000000001 to 1.99999999999 to any number of decimal places.... Finite infinity!

    now im confusin myself...what was i asking?
    yeah... doesnt that mean we can have more notes by 'slicing ' up the notes we alrewady have? we could make more music !

    right or wrong?

    and btw, could anybody tell me what is the frequency (in hertz)of the open e we play on the thinnest string?

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    Q.4

    this has nothing to do with music but sounds....how are ultrasonic and infrasonic sounds created?


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    Q5

    what is it that makes a a particular note played on the guitar sound diff from the same note of the same octave played on some other instrument? wavelength? frequency? what?

    and btw, is the frequency of note e on the 1st string equal to that of the e on the 6th? whats the diff between them?

    and what anyway is the diff between freq, wavelength and amplitude?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q7.

    why are power chords called so? cant they be played on the accoustic guitar? what is the formula for these chords? any two notes at random or what?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q8.

    this i think is the scale of note C

    C -- D E F G A B C

    Where c is the root note ....

    this is how we get the scale:

    root note + T T St T T T St


    where t = tone (up two keys)
    st = semitone (up one)

    i ask my teacher how the hell did man come up with this formula and he says: donno, its just like that....

    somebody please gimme a reason......
    i hate it when dont understand something i wanna learn...

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q9...

    why are the frets near the sound box smaller? i dont think that does anything to the freq of notes since its the length of the string tat makes the difference.....

    why couldnt the frets near the tuning keys be small too? it'd been easier to play some of the weird chords we have....like c# bloody hell! haha....we could have more notes on the board too! right??


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    Q10 ...this is the last one...phew!

    what is a capo and how does it work?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    for those who have read this post of mine till end.

    thank you...hehehe....
     
  2. Natasia

    Natasia ...

    interesting.....

    first of all....i accept u'r "thank you"......... :p :p

    second of all...............realllyyy interesting questions dude ... :think: ......not that i can answer any of them......(coz even i'm just a newbie..........)but none the less verrrryyyyyyyyyy interesting...... :shock: ....looking forward to the replies for these ques..... :)
     
  3. kaiser

    kaiser Bored

    i got the answer for q9. just figured it out.
    now i feel like i shudve never asked........hehe

    its like this....the closer you are to the sound box, even a little distance makes a big diff....because the length of the string aint much. and vice versa.......

    so to move on to the next note, when we are near the tuning keys, we need to move a greater distance than when we are on the other side.

    yeah....

    now lets have the answers for the rest of the qs
     
  4. prash_rocks

    prash_rocks Over the Hills & Far Away

    i really admire your intellectual honesty kaiser. i myself have never pondered over any of these questions in such great depth. so until i learn more, i can answer only as much...

    (1). i'm not sure if anyone can really tell who came up with the pioneering idea of chords... but i guess it's not just a single person who developed the entire theory, it's not such a simple thing as that, nor any general theory could really have been made before the discovery of all the chords...

    people independently must've discovered that these certain notes corresponding to a scales in all keys harmonise well together always, and so all these relations would've been studied and then theorised, conceptualised and thence applied generally as a rule...

    the unfortunate part is, we remembered the derivative rules but forgot the needs and ideas that led to their formulation.

    so why we need em in a song? ummm ya maybe cuz they sound good along to the song! ok, i dunno if this is true but i'm yet postulating...

    remember that the theory of scales is actually also a rule... like the indian songs (the classical ones and most of the oldies at least) are all based on ragas... that limits the notes you can use in your song... like for such and such a raga, such and such particular note(s) are barred, and if used that is no more the same raga.

    the western counterpart for these rules can be said to be the scales... for a given song known to be in a given scale, only such and such notes can be used and no other. (of course these rules are meant to be broken for musical diversity, but nonetheless...) a chord can thus be defined as a harmony of all the allowed notes in the song... it can be said to be a compact 'package' that defines the particular measure/part of the song and encompasses all the notes that the musical tone can lead to from there for that particular measure, without actually changing the whole feel or sharpness or flatness of the song... u understand what i mean to say?

    (2). i'd expect the above theory to answer your second question... just now it doesn't seem to completely though.

    these are the actual notes of your song:

    Code:
    C   Am   F   G
    eed cdga cfe d (x2)
    
    (G) C     Am    F     G
    gab cc cb aa ag ff ef g
    
    where

    C = c, e, g
    Am = a, c, e
    F = f, a, c
    G = g, b, d

    so the offending notes in the first line are: d in the first measure (C), d and g in the second measure (Am), e in the third (F).

    likewise in the second line: a (G), b (C), g (Am), e (F)

    to understand why these notes are still allowed while a chord not containing those notes are played, we probably need to understand the chord-leading theory better (http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~desmith/guitar/chords/leading.htm)... these notes occur in the song so as to make the chord transition smoother... they sometimes occur in the next chord themselves, but mostly are those that bear some harmonic relation that connects the two chords, like a note higher or lower or a note on a particular position of the scale that serves to join the two... just now i can't explain the discrepancies myself as i don't yet know much about scales and stuff. i will write in more if i learn these things better later sometime.

    (3). remember what i said while writing this stuff... that i'm explaining the 'how', not the 'why'... that is, i can only explain the phenomenon when it's happening or has happened, but i can't reason why in the world it should happen in the first place.

    what you say is correct: of course you do have infinite frequencies in between any two notes, but can all those frequencies necessarily be used in music?

    all i remember ever having read about this somewhere was that after considering all the tones and also the semitones that occur in the octave, all the frequencies that remain in between are too close, too indistinguishable to be used in compositions... well, these are the facts:
    the no. of recognisable microtones are:

    c - 4
    d - 3
    e - 2
    f - 4
    g - 4
    a - 3
    b - 2

    that makes it 22 notes in all... that is pretty hard to master already!

    yeah, and this i read a long time back in the encyclopaedia: the freq of the middle c is about 261.6 Hz, and each successive note is greater by a factor of 2^1/12 ~ 1.0595... so u can find out e.

    (4). not necessarily disconnected with music... though a google search should answer this question for both of us.

    (5). what makes different people's voices different? the size of their voicebox, the the larynx, the throat, then the way they deal with respiration and stuff... so what makes the sounds of different instruments different? their dimensions of course, and their shape, the material used, the methods of playing them... two violins made of different woods sound different... two guitar pickups produce different sounds... add to that the musician's skill. like i'd sound much better playing the les paul than a jimmy page would... that way.

    (7). power chords get this name probably cuz they sound pretty loud and hard and edgy as they're used only with distortion... you may also say they're used cuz playing the full chords with distortion utterly distorts the sound, it becomes really very noisy that way.

    oh you wanna try them on an acoustic, pls do so... but don't complain if they sound even meeker than the 'powerless' chords ;)

    someone posted the formula a few days back on this site, check that out.

    (8). why do u expect everything to have a reason?

    in my opinion, the scales like the chords weren't made according to reason... they were first discovered naturally, and the judge then was not reason but aesthetics... ok, try this: pick up some notes and make of them a series and then try to arrange them to make some musical sense out of that series... if you really have a great musical ear and understanding, most likely you'd end up with a series that'd resemble one of these already known scales!

    of course bravo if u discovered a new scale! so what do u do now? of course u needn't go on in the same fashion for all keys. you observe certain patterns in your new scale and try to formulise so that you needn't repeat the whole process again. now what do you do if i demand a reason behind that scale?? ;)

    so i think this is the general rule: the arts don't involve the reason as much as aesthetics. if reason happens, that is only to satisfy a rule developed originally by perception.

    (9). i think you're right: the length and the frequency of the instrument are inversely related. when u play a fret way down close to the soundbox, the effective length of the *remaining* string reduces a lot. that would mean that the same string is now capable of producing more (and higher) frequencies, and hence those frequencies would occur at more closely spaced intervals.

    (10). a device to help u play in a different key, generally in a key that has much simpler changes for the same relative chords... ummm, like if u wanna play the C# bloody hell chord, you put the capo on the first fret of the guitar, that serves like a barring finger. so now if u play a C on the second fret using the same fingering, you'll actually be playing a C#. likewise if u wanna play F#, u can capo the second fret and play an E.

    for example, the song "everything i do" by bryan adams has the chords C# (bloody hell!), G#, F# and D#m... especially the part where you need to quickly switch between D#m and C# can be a little difficult... so you can put the capo on the first fret, so that u now have to play C, G, F and the easy Dm, and yet you get the same sound as on the record.
     
  5. scot_hacker

    scot_hacker New Member

    High E = 329.63 Hz (?)
     
  6. kaiser

    kaiser Bored

    C# bloody hell!

    hey prash man...
    thanks for all the stuff.....amazing!

    .... as far as chord and scale theories are concerned, im still not satisfied. but im gonna get to the root of all this one day and prash my man, u and i have got a lot to talk about.

    will get in touch with ya, when i find out more.
    thanks again.




    u know it feels shit when you have something to ask but there is no one around who knows anything about music....but at IGT, its great....

    whoever started this god-awesome IGT thing....my regards... :rockon:
     
  7. jayanth

    jayanth <.: : Call Quits : :.>

    Prash has answered them all. Really cool..
     
  8. alli

    alli The Best Ever

    prash - i guess u chose bingo ! right on ! ! - completely right nick for urself eh ? :nw:
     
  9. prash_rocks

    prash_rocks Over the Hills & Far Away

    ummm... :think:
    well... :rule:
     
  10. jayanth

    jayanth <.: : Call Quits : :.>

    Prash Rocks:rock:
     
  11. prash_rocks

    prash_rocks Over the Hills & Far Away

    hey what's happening here? to tell u the truth, i still crib about the day i chose that silly and meaningless nick for myself... had an old, equally silly email id like that, and didnt think twice before signing up for the same... now i really wish i could change it! oh, but for my post count!

    anyway, thanks mate! though most of what i wrote here was mere speculation...

    :beer:
     
  12. jayanth

    jayanth <.: : Call Quits : :.>

    No its not. Its reallly correct and legitimate. About the name thingy. Mine's the saddest. Jayanth is not a nick. Its my Name. I wish i could change it too.
     
  13. alli

    alli The Best Ever

    mine isn't even my real name. and even though its "aLLi" ..ppl. still think im a guy and "aLi".... sigh....

    but i can c im not the only one complaining bout my nick .

    hmmm..................:think:
     
  14. jayanth

    jayanth <.: : Call Quits : :.>

    It i knew it was gonna display jayanth, i would not have subscribed using it. Now its ok. If i change, I may lose popularity :p :p :p Kidding
     
  15. alli

    alli The Best Ever

    hmmm................:think:

    jayanth ain't such a bad name after all.... and considering ur in a rock band ..not bad at all...

    lotsa people in rock bands have "wierd old" names ... :p :p :p kidding
     
  16. jayanth

    jayanth <.: : Call Quits : :.>

    So my name is weird??????? Jayanth The Victor aint Weird. I have better nicks.
     
  17. alli

    alli The Best Ever

    (just in case u ddnt get it) (and i can c tht u prob. ddnt )

    i was kidding .....

    but yea.. on the other side..u culd prob. keep it "jayanth the weird"...hehe (running lke crazy looking for cover)
     
  18. jayanth

    jayanth <.: : Call Quits : :.>

    :mad: Where's My Double Barrel ???
     
  19. alli

    alli The Best Ever

    right here with ME .... !!!

    HA-HA-HA-HA-HAA (evil laughter)
     
  20. jayanth

    jayanth <.: : Call Quits : :.>

    Where Where Where??? :mad:
     

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