I want to start playing jazz

Discussion in 'The ChitChat Lounge' started by ultrabot90, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    I want to start playing jazz, I know the instrument fairly well, I'm familiar with fingerstyle and know a little touchstyle, I know a little sheet music and theory (I'm in Grade 4 theory).

    I'm mainly interested in 'chord melody' (polyphonic playing - playing lead, rhythm, and bass together) like Joe Pass, George van Eps, Jason Crawford, Lenny Breau and the rest, NOT SOLOING (ugh), and improvising that way.

    How should I get started? Like a rough step by step with what I should know at every level, perhaps.

  2. flood

    flood New Member

    *sigh* you don't learn.... WRONG FORUM.
  3. flood

    flood New Member

    now that i've said that, get your hands on joe pass' educational videos and also take a look at this book by howard roberts: http://www.scribd.com/doc/9202697/Book-Jazz-Guitar-Technique-in-20-Weeks-Howard-Roberts

    the 20 weeks thing is not bullshit because the book is HARDCORE. gave up after i saw the first chord progression (pg 21). way too much, i still struggle with songs comprising of three power chords.

    jazz is improvisational music by definition, so a lot is left to your imagination.
  4. rickkkyrich

    rickkkyrich Guest

  5. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    Can you say unfair x-P lol
    Actually, I have a tendency to go and get myself embarrassed at the 'pro' forums...sevenstring.org, Tappistry, you name it. So I guess it's best to hit the ground running with them.

    Fawk, I was psyched to see that book, but its in the Scribd Archive and need me to upload/pay something to download. Hm, but thanks, I'll search for the same thing elsewhere xD

    Edit - Wewt! http://www.mediafire.com/?ays99dfzd9y
    Wow, this thing is DEEP. I zapped up to pg 21, and WOW...not too hard to follow! (the only hard part, I guess, will be the playing, lol.)
    Wow, I never thought of that. That'd actually focus me on the notes, and only the notes (generally when I improv there's either a lot of ornamentation or it sounds too much like a scale). There's also a very nice point on the body's monthly up times and down times, and only steels me up for disciplines (I lost count of people telling me to be 'freer' with practice)

    This book seems to be, however, aimed at solo players, and more specifically for plectrum players...and I can't seem to locate the Joe Pass videos. You know of any other non-commercial books like that?

    @Rickkky - It's about listening...I'm talkin' bout playin', but I'll look there too, thanks o.o
  6. flood

    flood New Member

    you need to start somewhere, and if you have the discipline to learn i'd go through the book. first rule of guitar playing - kill your ego, before you turn into a dickwad like YJM...

    nope, i don't there is any decent non-commercial material out there. which doesn't have to stop us ;)
  7. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles


    I simply noodled around using just one idea - major scale, straight 8ths, shouldn't sound too much like a scale. I got an awesome theme! (for me, finding a theme is always hard work, and ornamentation and supporting music comes easier.). Kinda reminiscent of J.S. Bach. @_@

    I'll work on it, will look for more books too, thank you very much! ^_^
  8. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    This was originally titled only "Jazz" because I kinda liked how GuitarDoc started a thread called "Blues" (concerning the same damn thing, getting started as a beginner xD) and then I started one called "Jazz".

    Anyway, for anyone looking for a follow up or more definitive/comprehensive answer, (while I haven't tried it yet) I guess it'd have to be this - http://www.jodyfisher.com/products.html

    I'll be getting "Beginning Jazz Guitar", "Intermediate Jazz Guitar", "Mastering Chord Melody" (oh boy oh boy oh boy), and "Mastering Improvisation".

    First I wondered who Jody Fisher was (there were a lot of results for him), and then I Googled and reached his website...Aha! I've actually heard him before ^^ This vid - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=476vNb6thyM

    Tada, thanks, everyone! :D
  9. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    Well, if it makes you feel better, that thread is no longer called "Blues"...

    I'm not cheesed. Anyway, it's a positive step, making thread titles more descriptive means someone still gives half a shit... Although he also closed the "right click" discussion in the feedback forum without replying... BUT, he didn't delete the thread, just closed it...

    I don't even know you anymore, admin. You're acting weird. Are you having an affair?
  10. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    *checks* Ah...He could atleast have a sense of aesthetics and call it "I want to start playing blues" or vice versa ;)

    Yeah...I think as long as you and rickkky are there, a year or so down the line we'll see a new IGT! :D

    LOL. I read this somewhere, "Arguing with the moderators is like shaking your fist at God. There's nobody there; and if there is, he's not listening. And if he's listening, all you're doing is pissing him off." XD
  11. flood

    flood New Member

    wtf is blues "lead" guitar? FFS!!!!
  12. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    He wanted to solo over a progression...I guess that's where admin got his spark of genius.
  13. guitardoctor

    guitardoctor Will Rx for food

    I thought that's what it's called, myself... The progressions are the rhythm part, and the improv is the lead, yais?
  14. spydra

    spydra New Member

    A little late I see but I'll just put in my 2 cents.

    I wish you wouldn't act like Soloing is a bad word. You'll miss out on a lot of great music if you do....Miles Davis would probably be called a Soloist? I know what you mean when you say that though.

    The way to go about it, in my fairly limited opinion, is to learn a lot of chords to start with. Move on to a lot of chord substitutions and the theory behind why and how you can substitute chords. A lot of Jazz standards, you'll notice, have very simple chord structures on the chord sheet but when you hear a musician play the song, they seem to play something completely different because they substitute one chord for another and then another and then another till you find it difficult to recognize what the original was....and there really is no end to it. And the challenge is to do something different every time you go on stage because everyone in the band is improvising and you have to listen to them very carefully to know what you're supposed to do. Being a soloist in this kind of a situation is really really difficult.

    Take for example this old pop song


    Am7 D9 GMaj7 CMaj7

    Gbm7b5 B7 Em7 Em7

    Those are the first two lines. I've played this song once on stage (I didn't improvise...I'm not good enough to but I was just playing with a synth guy so we decided how the chords were gonna go. I did put in some extra ones).

    Where there was a Gbm7b5, I knew I could use a Gbm7#5. Where I can use a Gbm7#5, I know I can use a Gb diminished. Where I can use a Gb diminished, I know I can use either a A, C, or D# diminished....or all of them at once, so when the synth guy played a bar of Gbm7b5, I played:

    Gbm7b5 Gbm7b5 Gbm7b5 Gbm7b5| B7
    Gbm7b5 Gbm7#5 Gbdim Adim Cdim| B7

    and from a C dim to B7 is a chromatic-ish descent so it sounds snazzy. As a soloist, instead of doing all of that, I'd do a diminshed arpeggio on the Gbm7b5 so it's essentially using the same idea and doing different things. I wish you wouldn't separate the two and leave one aside.

    So, aside from the detour, the point I'm trying to make is that chord substitutions are a great thing to learn to get into jazz music since they use them a lot...it also adds a lot to other genres (people DO use them outside jazz...in fact I hate branding an idea as belonging to a particular genre).

    Also, keep in mind that music came first and theory came later to try and set a standard and explain why what we're hearing is sounding good. I keep saying this even where it's not pertinent because it's an important thing to remember.
  15. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    I dunno, man, I just like that chord-melody, and solo (self comping) concept. And there's a certain beauty to playing your own bassline and improvising over that. I'd say soloing IS there in chord melody, only, you just doubled up as the bassist+comper, and that's what I love in every instrument I love - classical guitar, piano, harpsichord, organ, Hammond organ, accordion, touchstyle guitar, marimba, vibraphone...

    The thing is I'm kind of finding it hard to get started, and there are some gaps in my knowledge of the 'process of learning jazz' (as in, how do you get from here [knowing nothing] to there [improvising away on the changes]).

    So I thought that I will contact a teacher...this teacher. http://www.gussyrikh.com/ <- What do you folks say?
    Also, if you guys know an organ/Hammond organ player/teacher in Delhi, it'd be a great help. Better if he/she knows jazz, but no biggie if not.
  16. spydra

    spydra New Member

    I think you misunderstood what I'm saying there. I'm just saying there's good music to be found both places...and not just good music, lessons. You tend to lose out if you stop listening to either.

    and I'm not knocking that style. I love it. I have learnt so much from watching and listening to Joe Pass...but even he's had influences and different styles of playing. Chord Substitution is the way to his eventual style but that's only 1 side to the legend. Extract from Wikipedia:

    As for the theory, I would recommend a teacher...and you seem to have found someone who probably knows it.
  17. spydra

    spydra New Member

  18. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    Oh, c'mon man...Of COURSE I listen to (and like tons of) solo playing, and not just in jazz either! :D If I only heard chord-melody stuff, I'd be ditching out 90% of the world's music. x-P

    That video - shit, that guy knows his stuff, generally I get turned off at the very sight of looper pedals (because someone wants to play like that but couldn't be arsed to learn :p), but he used it nicely in the first song, and after that it isn't shabby either.

    Hey, I finally figured out the mystery of your sig
    Copied to Google translate.
    Copied English translation to Google
    First link - http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?action=showall&boardid=41&threadid=75402
  19. spydra

    spydra New Member

  20. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

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