Coming back to life?

With a quickie, i hope i can manage to make some sense rather than ramble on and make a fool of myself, so here goes:

Wht you are asking kais, contradicts itself. Although you are talking about atheists, there is always spirituality and definitely talk of souls! Thats what atheism is all about.

Souls exist. We are souls, just trapped in physical bodies that help us survive in our materialistic world. They allow us to get along in our daily lives. Although atheists dont believe in a higher entity or supreme power, they dont believe in reincarnation either--well atleast to some aspect. its an endless cycle that goes on-similar to what hinduism or buddhism or pretty much any other major religion claims. but these guys are more engaged in believing in individuals and the spiritual realm that comprises within each of us. We are. Thats just the way it is. There is no before and there is no after. There definitely is no hereafter. Its very philosophical and a scientific mind will argue.

Now, im having a little trouble with your:

There has to be soul!! Im curious to know what, then, you think would come back? Are you referring to our physical bodies? And if you ARE an atheist, then i really want to know how you would explain the phenomenon!
















did i make sense up there?? :Worried:

 

That my dear is something that you just believe in!! What does your religion say?
You dont question..He/She just is.
For that, there is no scientific explanation..had there been..wouldnt things be a tee wee bit different, and us not humans?

 

@raff: bravo!
@taxyse: ... thats the problem! you only look at one side of the mirror . .and it reflects what you want to see ..
trust me if you think long enough you can even come up with "how to make life in your own kithchen"!, making rational theories about how the life actually begun is very easy ... carrying that theory forward and actually bringing it to the point where it actually says that "hey! here it is i just made a primitive uni cellular organ that can react to external stimuli" is what that is imppossible ..

one can make amino acids in lab .. surely thats not a big deal, its just another organic chemical compound, the thing that missing is the "life"!!!
you can have all the amino acids you want .. just tell me one thing, has ANYone told you, yet, that how those amino acids joined up and came to life??

i'll repeat ... we are just made out of normal compunds and elements .. what makes us alive ... is something extraordinary that we dont yet know .. we dont yet understand .. but its right under our noses ... something that we all possess yet we dont know what that is .. and when we lose it, we are dead ... call it soul or whatever .. one has to admit that there is "something" that drives the engine of life ... what ever it maybe .. you dont like to call that soul .. fine we'll call it ..umm .. mints!, or luos or anything .. but it is there ... closing your eyes wont make the reality disappear ..
now you may say that i am being biased calling it reality... ok fine .. then tell me .. how else would you explain all this? how does common elements get together and exhibit such a complex behaviour of life? what drives them?

as for where the god came from? i dont know .. but let me tell you something that i beileve in .. god, said he created the universe .. he even told us that he made us out of dry ringing clay (in context with the modern premordial soup theory) how he created the universe out of singularity (in context with einstein, hawkings and the big band theory) he explained things that we never had realized before .. the inner workings of the atom, the fact that there is only one force thats keeping this universe in balance (that we are yet to discover ... we only know 4 or 5 to this point .. grand unification is still underway and poses the biggest challenge to modern day physicists)
and ALL that .. some 1500 years ago!!!!!! .. so if he said all that .. and now we know that it is actually true ..... then tell me why wouldnt i believe Him when He says that He has been here for ever .. He created all life and He is alone the power?? i dont have any choice mate .. .if he is right till now .. i would accept anything He says .. without a single doubt ..
and would alos take the His theory of soul, life after death, and the judgement ...

 

@shak: YYAAAAA...*encore*
@tax: Whered ya go? you gotta couple of things to answer!!

 

Why a dead man cannot be brought bak to life?


After death, the body core temperature cools. Cooling depends a number of external factors including the environment and clothing. Furthermore, rigor mortis begins prior to decomposition. During this process, the muscles gradually become hard due to decreased ATP and lactic acidosis within muscle fibrils. This usually begins 2-4 hours after death, though the process may begin earlier. After 9-12 hours, or in a warm enough climate, these effects may disappear.

Another post mortem reaction includes livor mortis, which begins at the moment of death. During livor mortis, the body becomes distended and skin colour progressively changes from green to purple and finally to black. The dependent areas of the body undergo this process first due to the pooling of blood, and this is usually seen within 2 hours of death, with the process of livor mortis reaching its maximum at 8-12 hours.

 

One question: How/When do doctors pronounce someone dead? (Based on what conditions/situations/phenomena etc)

 

^^ dead is when the body's heart fails to function...which obviously leads to the failure of the rest of the organs...without the heart there is absolutely nothin living about you. Therefore, you are dead when you heart stops beating...(obvisously for like a period of time)

When they are able to revive you, they tend to refer to that as the patient "coming back" literally from being pronounced dead.

 

^^doctors dont deal with phenomenon..atleast i dont think. they only deal with real life, medical situations..for them everything has a sane explanation..

 

yeah i guess its when your vital signs are off that you are dead ...
pretty creepy what happens after you are dead .... and yet another reason to marvel on this creation ..

 

ran out of an internet connection :

seriously ..u guys just write too much..ha ha...by the time i come back..i have so much to read,understand...and reply...phew...

whats that all about...didnt get that??

i was just wondering shak...if we go along ur protien and amino acid theory...we would have never had CURD could we?? :think: correct me...
cant we be the only ' slot machine' amongst these zillion others that got the combination right and produced us???
as fer the soul thing...i dont know...why cant it just be the 'sense of belonging ' we have fer our body...seeing through these eyes we have...knwing what all i think...?? if there is a living body..there has to be this sense of belonging....all in our mind that is..
but yeh..i cant answer whats bieng dead...maybe like petu said..ur heart stops and then all that degradation starts.....who knows....
BTW ..ne body has heard of that cRYOGENIC project they are workin on...?? i am a serious beliver in that...i will register myself if i ever lay my hands on some money ....

 

+1, dude. wish i had a broadband connection.

 

@shak: i said i wudnt argue with anyone but now i will.

what if we actually are a fluke in time. scientist have looked for extra-t life and havent found any yet. It could be, that there's no god, and it is just on earth that something clicked.
most of the people are conditioned to believe that there is a superpower and that are fates are already decided and that there's something called soul that drives our bodies. so they dont even ask questions......big example: petunia.

in fact , i find it sad, that people born into religious families arent given a choice to rationalise bt the presence of god......what if you, shak, were brought up in a place where nobody has even thought of the concept of god yet? would you have come to the conclusion that there is a superpower that created every single atom that exists in the universe? and that too on your own? and with such a fierce belief? would keep saying god did this and god did that for any question you're unable to answer? how would u explain cloning? scientists created life in the laboratory. i dont know how the racket works but its friggin amazing. i think it blows a hole in the reasoning that 'somebody' made us. i say, we just got made. we're a damm fluke.


@Petunia-----

am i contradicting myself becase there is 'spirituality' and talk of souls? BTW, i wasnt talking bt athiests....but what is atheism about?
i didnt quite get ur post, sorry!

haha, petunia...whoaa....man i actually wanted some atheists to answer. my bad luck! btw, i need a soul where can i buy one? my daily life just sucks!

why would an atheist believe in reincarnation anyway? and how DO you know that there is a cycle that goes on? prove that shit and ill commit suicide. id like to see what im born next as.

LMFAO.............!!!!!!!!!! HAhahahahahaha........please explain!!!!!

and hey look up a dictionary. a philosopher is a practitioner of reason. science and philosophy are quite on the same plane.

*sigghhhhh*

 

I friggin forgot, man.

@alpha: dude, u have plenty to answer. where are ya?

 

Actually the concept of god is pretty laughable, if you look at is logically/rationally and without any prejudice.

Same can be said about Soul.

But man, you really need to define death properly, in an atheist way, in order to come up with answer as to "can we bring back ppl from death".
Ofcourse, if we get caught up in things like soul defines life etc, we can never come up with a solution.

 

okay. death is when the heart stops beating/pumpin blood to parts of your body....as is somewhat discussed in previous posts.

so, what if someone healthy dies of a shock. his brain's alive, (from what i know, the brain doesnt 'die' with the body. it takes longer) his body's not damaged, he has JUST died and no rigor mortis or livor mortis or anything degeneration process has begun yet. assuming there's no soul, can you revive the dude?

jeez......im bored..

 

Duh!
Dont tell me you dont know about this: https://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/aha/aha_electric_car.htm

 

wait wait..if uve technically died under shock, and yet ur brain is "alive" or active..how the hell do you expect to revive a person. I mean im sure a person of your intellect would know that although a brain is still active regardless of the rest of the body, the brain is obviously damaged to a point that it becomes beyond revival. Regardless of the mortis' coming into place...There probably isn’t enough strength for anything to be revived..so you might want to rethink the reality of your question. It jst isnt possible. But im sure if there is ever such a case, where the damage isnt as great..then revival is possible and has probably happened.

But, why have you included the soul in here...theres no involvement of the soul...it has nothing to do with the soul.

 

@kaiser: if you really had trouble reading my post, its a little hard to understand why you grasped such concepts in the first place. if you cant understand the basic ideology

WTF?? athiests practice athiesm..what dont you fckin understand...???

Then you really in for it...if you can jst sit there assuming you really arent going to get anywhere in life...

never did i say that people should, i merely stated it, because unlike many of the other religions, athiesm doesnt believe it. There was no assumption of any sort. Well i dont know if there really is a cyclic regeneration of our kind and our world, kais. Its just another ideology..an explanation for certain aspects. Just like you really dont know whether there IS a supreme being or not, but it is the concpts that is like a fuel to our fire of reasoning. It is human to believe in something..like our fathers before us it made sense so we believe we have faith.

In regard to the attack you displayed on shak, there is no one forcing him to believe wht he was brought up with. Everyone is entitled to explore and find something..hell if you dont want to believe dont.

Thats the whole point of believing and having faith!!!! :annoyed: Thats where the inner peace comes from and what have you. Not being able to prove it makes it all the more debatable.

YES! it is philosophical...and im very proud of you..you can actually define the confounded word...but can you incorporate it to what the discussion here is about?

I said that athiesm is a ground of philosophical ideology. They base their "religion" on concepts such as the law of physics and the big bang theory..there is no supreme being.

But in defense to that, id like to add that there are however certain theistic philosophers that do support theories of a higher power..

....

 

@kaiser: exactly .. i aint here to argue either .. i'll just give you the reality as i know it .. and rest you can decide for yourself,
as for being born in a religious family blah blah ... naa mate no family can get more liberal than mine if you meet me in real life you wouldnt see a hint of a religious guy .. i am as bad as it gets .. but to be very honest .. i have studied religion and theology with deep interest .. i was once like you but then one day it all changed ... puttin all this to chance and a fluke does not make sense .. no matter how open you are ... i am as open as i get .. as rational as one sane human can be .. as aware of technology as one can be .. as up to date with superstitious and para normal phenomenon as i can easily take .. yet ... i believe in god .. i just cant close my eyes and live in denial ..
i do feel that religion can be binding at times .. but that alone does not gives one a reason to deny existance of god ...
anyway .. we are not here to assert our opinions and beliefs .. lets just live the rest of 50 or 60 years in peace and once we die .. we will know what actually is true .. either one of us will be smillin and the one who is ... drink is on him

 

..or deny the existence of souls and spirituality for that matter...