can it drive??

Discussion in 'Guitar Gear Talk Forum' started by blackclouds, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. blackclouds

    blackclouds New Member

    i ve been curious bout these stuffs since a long time..
    plz enlighten me :)...thanx

    1- can a be3 solutionn18 head drive a 4x12 cab ??
    2- if yes, then will the tone differ if i plug in higher wattage head of same model series of the same company say a solution180 (i knw there is no such model ) to same 4 x12 cab???
    3- whats minimum wattage required to drive a 4x12 cab ???
    4- are solution 18 and powerhouse 100 similar tonewise??
     
  2. thehundredthone

    thehundredthone New Member

    1. Yes.
    2. Yes. More clean headroom. More power to drive the speakers.
    3. Not sure.
    4. Probably not. The volume of the amp changes the tone subjectively.
     
  3. blackclouds

    blackclouds New Member

    hmmm...and how does speaker config affect the tone and volume??? i mean is a 4x12 cab sound louder than a 1x12 with same head ?
     
  4. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

  5. thehundredthone

    thehundredthone New Member

    Thanks for that link. Always wondered about interference when running multiple speaker cabs.
     
  6. flood

    flood New Member

    3. about 30 milliwatts would be sufficient to drive it to a just-audible volume. this depends on some other factors too, like speaker efficiency.
    4. DEFINITELY not. an 18W amp and a 100W have a world of difference between them, thanks to all that extra power. no early saturation in the 100W, no early compression...

    4x12" vs 1x12" sound and feel different. more speakers = more air being pushed.
     
  7. thehundredthone

    thehundredthone New Member

    The link ultrabot posted makes for interesting reading on that point.
     
  8. blackclouds

    blackclouds New Member

    wow its so educational,i love igt!! here goes some more...

    1> is sol.18 combo loud enough for jamming with drums? whats the min. wattage required to do so?
    2> is sol 18 any good for metal ..to be more specific djent?
     
  9. ultrabot90

    ultrabot90 Like fishes need bicycles

    Wow...we all managed to make a little difference, then - a few months ago I'd have taken that statement as ironic. ;)

    I don't play metal, I don't play with a band with drums yet, and I haven't played a Solution 18 (or any other BE3...*gnash*) yet.

    Having said that, I've been told that
    1. Clean = no. OD = sure.
    2. It should be fine, you might need a OD and/or dist pedal (something tells me you already will have a few of those) as we don't know it's voicing yet (flood would divine this better).
     
  10. flood

    flood New Member

    i don't know what the solution sounds like, but in general i don't recommend low power tube amps for metal cause i associate metal with a tight, non-muddy low end. so 50W and above only. more on that when i start building my soldano.

    i have gotten great metal sounds from my 18W using high-gain metal pedals (barber dirty bomb, zoom tri metal) and running my amp fairly clean or just to the point of breakup.

    if you wanna do djent, then yeah a good high-gain amp goes a long way. but - quite honestly - keshav dhar from AVR/hydrodjent has some seriously badass djent tones, definitely the best i've heard in the country, and he gets them using a PODxt, creating his own patches obviously. just to throw in some perspective. misha (a.k.a bulb of periphery) has a video up where he's getting a killer tone from an engl fireball.

    i'm not sure about the powerhouses - they sound a bit differently voiced to my ears, like 80s high-gain amps, but that doesn't mean TOO much. get yourself a couple of drive and EQ pedals and that should do the trick. at least a 2x12" is highly recommended. djent is 50% low tuning and tone shaping. so thick string guages, downtuned a long way and muscular pickups. also lots of EQ work. and you'd better have your technique right, or it'lll just sound like you're trying to play metal but are having an seizure while doing so.
     
  11. insatanity

    insatanity New Member

  12. blackclouds

    blackclouds New Member

    well i don ve any dist or OD pedal ( wish i had) but ve a multi fx pedal - zoom g2.u1 plugged in to A 20W soundx (which sucks)...the problem with my amp is wen i crank up the master volume to 6 and play with distortion with high gain patch....i get feedback even wen i am not standing before the speaker...is some thing wrong with my amp?

    @ultrabot wen you use dirty tone do you use your amp distortion or the processor's distortion or processor dist. boostin amp distortion???
    @all
    1> which tube preamp or poweramp is responsible for getting a metal like distorted tone?
    2> i had read somewhere dont remember where...a tube amp with same wattage as that of a solid state is 3 times louder than the solid ones, is that true???
     
  13. blackclouds

    blackclouds New Member

    omg!! thats insane...keshav uses only a podxt and managed to get such epic tone...now am completly inclined towards getting a pod...ill get the amp later wen ill ve enough money and knowledge bout tone and stuff.....having said that if i get the pod xt/x3 (Mmmm...POD
    )now do i really need a good amp i meant a tube ones like the solution 18 or sould i save up and get better 50+ watt with 2x12 cab later as flood metioned?
     
  14. insatanity

    insatanity New Member

    U need to tweak the ZNR on the G2.1u to cut that noise.
     
  15. flood

    flood New Member

    keshav is also a badass producer. so the way he layers his tracks has a big impact on the sound.

    if you're going for an amp i'd recommend the 50W with 2x12. better for gigs too.

    remember, there is no substitute for trying out stuff. there are no gurus on this forum and theoretical knowledge is just very little, considering the subjective nature of tone.
     
  16. ansar1313

    ansar1313 New Member

    1- can a be3 solutionn18 head drive a 4x12 cab ??
    2- if yes, then will the tone differ if i plug in higher wattage head of same model series of the same company say a solution180 (i knw there is no such model ) to same 4 x12 cab???
    3- whats minimum wattage required to drive a 4x12 cab ???
    4- are solution 18 and powerhouse 100 similar tonewise??

    Just my 2 cents...

    1&3. Yes....A 1 watt head is enough even to drive two 4x12 cabs loaded with Celestion Vintage 30s..as they are high-efficiency speakers, 100db is the sensitivity... that means 1watt can theoretically give you 100dB of Sound at 1meter...Now how you want to drive the 4x12 is a different Question.... To get some sort of speaker compression, you need to drive it near it's maximum Capacity...Like a 50watt Tube Amp Head driving a 60watt Speaker..
    50 wat Head will technically deliver much more power than 50watts when cranked...in the range of 70 to 90watts...The amp components and the Instrument speaker are designed to handle the abuse...
    Just to make things simple, you buy a 5watt head and drive a 4x12 cab it will sound awesome!!thr will be no damage to the amp in any manner...

    2&4. Different Heads of Different wattages will sound different at similar loudness..WHY??
    The output tubes are different, the circuit and configuration may be different as well..to get more info on this read : www(dot)be3amplifiers(dot)com/faq(dot)

    1> is sol.18 combo loud enough for jamming with drums? whats the min. wattage required to do so?
    2> is sol 18 any good for metal ..to be more specific djent?

    18watt is sufficient to be heard over a Drummer, provided that the tone is shaped well...remember no mids=no clarity....too much bass=fight for the same frequency range with the bass and bass drums....If the drummer is not drunk and sensible enough...an 18watt is easily audible over a Drum Kit
    BUT....
    50 watt is comfortably audible in a Jam room as well as live for all styles of Music....If you plan to play heavy music and need tight Low end or need to explore the whole dynamic range from pp to fff...then 50watt is ideal....
     
  17. ansar1313

    ansar1313 New Member

    If you understand tone and work on your processors..you can get a very convincing and acceptable metal tone out of it...But for some other styles it only comes close!!!
     
  18. flood

    flood New Member

    there we have the most valuable 2 cents of them all.

    +1000. i still haven't heard a processor that does mid-gain sounds REALLY well.
     
  19. blackclouds

    blackclouds New Member

    the znr is cranked up to 16..
     
  20. blackclouds

    blackclouds New Member

    Yea true nothing beats the amp...

    but after reading you replies...i think am not ready for a tube amp yet....partly because my pocket wont allow me and partly because m not tat experienced bout mps and tone stuffs ...it might sound funny but i ve neva played through a tube amp ( may be 1ns...not sure)...so am thinkin about stickin to with multi fx pedal...may be i wont get the best tone out of it but atleast i can get to knw tones of different amps from it....and wen i ll ve nuf experience ill get the amps and cabs as you guys recommended..

    having said that..am thinking of gettin pod x3 live...

    any thoughts???
     

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