21st Century....are we really living in it?

Discussion in 'The ChitChat Lounge' started by Ankur_Scorpio, Apr 4, 2006.

  1. khuram82

    khuram82 ......:mad:........

    ^lol ........yaar sorry........ :) but thats the way i type ..........now as cryptic n u've noticed it ........... when i complete a sentence i press this DOT.........and gather my thoughts again n start writing again :p: ......... im sorry ...........but im used to it............... sorrry agian .......oops :p:
     
  2. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening


    For once and for all, stop talking through your hat. Check your facts before making blatant statements.



    So you see it is groupism and not religion that is to blame.
     
  3. alpha1

    alpha1 I BLUES!

    Hmm, but he has a point (so what if weak?) that religions is the strongest catalyst of groups.
    Ergo religion leads to groupism.

    However, it cannot be construed that no religion = no groupism = no war.
     
  4. shsnawada

    shsnawada Cyborgs & Pasta

    Although i'm not religious myself, look at the suicide rates in a religious country versus a more "liberal " one. Youll need your hospitals there. And its not only suicide. Religion does help out on a lot of things in life. I'm not saying this because i want you to be religious or something (read my first sentence on this post), but there is a fairly large positive side for religion.

    +@ the guy who started this thread (a 23 year old in vancouver as i can remember) : Dont you think questions like: " are we living in the 21 st century? Look at this" are childhis/cliched? We ARE in the 21 st century and this is how it is. This is not some dreamland where everything started out as bad and now its all good. Youve got valid points though.


    But........ there are some logical things youre seeming to miss out. Even in the "western world", a religious christian person would like to marry another religious christian person. Just like an artist would like to marry someone who's interested in art. Its not just religion. But youre right when saying that india is conservative or regressive when it comes to these things. Were the opposite of the netherlands.
     
  5. shsnawada

    shsnawada Cyborgs & Pasta

    Thats true. I can imagine metallica - slayer wars. Hehe





    .
     
  6. bjr

    bjr Lady of the Evening


    Precisely. If there were no religion, we'd be divided into geeks vs. jocks or girls vs guys (like when we were younger) or black vs. white. It would still exist....religion bears the brunt because it is a soft target. The same groupism could exist without religion.
     
  7. sachoo

    sachoo drenched in my pain again

    This religion thing is always a hot topic n will be. anyways but trust ur religion but do not be a fanatic (n guys talking here abt westerns, jus to let u know tht they r big fanatics). As of india, still parents (almost all) r hurt when their children marry diff religion (evn caste)..so no arguements. Do follow this:

    Respect the Elders, Teach the Young, Cooperate with the Family and friends,

    Play when you can, Work when you should, Rest in between.

    Share your Affection, Voice your Feelings, Leave your Mark......



    n do earn fame n course money ;)

    sachoo :beer:
     
  8. Ankur_Scorpio

    Ankur_Scorpio New Member

    I agree buddy, these statements ARE cliched! and i have said that in one of the posts that follow, that the whole thread and its topic is cliched...the idea is that even though these statements have become cliched not much has changed in the thinking. Now that i read all the posts after my last post i am not surprised by the comments.

    @ khuram, Notty Lad,and rest who think inter-racial marriage is wrong-

    First Khurram, buddy,U have given a new perspective to me. Putting Humans from other religions and animals in the same equation..( i dont know wht to comment on that )..I dont understand wht u mean by people wont get along? So many marriages fall apart cos of lack of understanding,mistrust,lack of respect and unfaithful characters. I think when I see all those issues, issue of religion seems so small to me. Every religion teaches love and respect for all, and it is just a means of reaching the almighty.

    What is so wrong if people of different faiths want to live together? Its about understanding each other. How much does it matter if ur spouse has one way of worship and u have another. I see difference in beliefs but one can always sort those out. U can always learn something about the other, dont u learn new things when u go to school?? Cant u make an effort to learn about someone else's religion too? Is it really so hard? and dont tell me any religion prohibits it....
     
  9. Ankur_Scorpio

    Ankur_Scorpio New Member

    Here i pose the question to you guys!

    What would u do, if your kid fell in love with a person from other religion?

    Would u become the moral police that bjr was talking abt? Would u kill ur kids (surprisingly that still happens..happened last year in Canada,an indo-canadian dude did it)
    or would u let go and break all relationship with ur own blood,
    All this just because the other person does not have the same ideology as urs...or he/she has different thinking then urs!! are human emotional bonds really so weak??

    and LASTLY for all those who make so much noise about people from different religions, i am a religious person, but i was told by my parents wht religion i should follow. It was not written on my genes!! same goes for my language and my culture and my country...


    WONDER WHY even after decoding all the genes, scientists have still not discovered the gene of RELIGION!! that people sooo often use for discriminating!!

    I bet not one of you can guess a person's religion untill and unless he/she gives u the info. We only start disciminating once we get that info.

    If i change my religion today, would i as a person change? would my knowledge change? nothing would....only thing that might change is my name and i guess the whole STORY REVOLVES AROUND THT.
     
  10. khuram82

    khuram82 ......:mad:........

    i would jus respond to ur post # 28.........coz post # 29 appeared to me a good attempted speech :p:

    anyways....... yeah i wanted someone to ask about what u termed as puttin ppl of different religion..........n humans n animals......in the same equation........well actually i couldnt think of a better example thats y i mentioned that.......... but the idea i was trying to give was.............that humans n animals dont fit together anyways............similar is the case with ppl with different religions...........atleast i dont know any couple both having different religions......n they are still following their religions correctly (or rather as they were b4 getting married)..............**if u know one then dont read what im saying next**............. because atleast one of them tends to go away from his/her religion as his/her partner has a different religion.........or sometimes it gets difficult to cope.................thats one thing............the next is..........what about the kids? what religion are they gonna follow? dont tell me they'll gonna follow both or none........... 'both' is not possible ........'none' is not desirable..................... so i hope now u get the idea what i mean when i say in 23rd century one could expect humans marrying animals? ..................coz its 21st century as we all say.......n its already a topic of discussion whether lesbian/gay marriges should be allowed or not........... if u r to say no to that tell me the reason ( apart from what bjr said.....coz his reasons testify my argument) .....


    EDIT : i tried to use DOTS to a minimum
     
  11. Ankur_Scorpio

    Ankur_Scorpio New Member

    Well, i c ur point of view now. I know there arent many examples of inter-racial marriages and even if there were they would tend to downplay it, to avoid all kinda problems tht...moral police guys..create!

    But i can give u a very good example, the most popular Icon Shahrukh Khan (not a gr8 fan), but i really liked his video in which he has showcased how things r done at his home. He is Muslim and wife a Hindu...and his kids know both..hindu prayer and Islam prayers by heart! He has religious books of both the religions in one room and all family members pray to all. They celebrate both Hindu festivals and festivals of muslim. Man i cant imagine wht a gr8 life that would be....tht u get to eat savaiya and diwali sweets!!

    If effort is put in, anythings possible. Kids can enjoy and learn the best of both religions..and after all its not about making kids follow one thing...but the idea to to make good citizens!! and believe me...if u can be good at science and math..then following 2 religions is not something tht's impossible..

    Sad part of the story is that people would follow big icons like shahrukh in every respect, but forget about these real good things that he has, that has the potential to solve so many of our problems.

    btw Akbar's wife Jhodabahi was a hindu too...and he didnt have much trouble ruling the nation :p:

    where there is a will, there is a way!! just gotta have the will.... :beer:
     
  12. vivo_b

    vivo_b The Brave

    Hmmm finally a thread that has personal implications....not for me.....for ankur....hehehehehhe I know why you put this thread up!!!!!:p: :cool: ;)
    Anyways since you want input....here it is:

    1. I like using numerical points
    2. I think religion, caste, race all this becomes a problem because of the fact that marriage is NOT about just you and your better(or worse)-half in India....its about two families!!!
    3. Not everyone in your family(aunts uncles blah blah) are gonna accept it.....it is something you will face whether the girl/guy is from the SAME everything as you!!!!
    4. People's behaviours are molded not just by genes but also by their upbringning. Upbringing is not genetic either, its the social system that you are brought up in. Social system is determined by a variety of factors, including religion, race, caste etc.
    5. We still believe that marriage is LIFE-LONG commitment. No one (even in the west) ever gets married knowing that it'll last....eh maybe three five years....everyone wants that commitment. Divorce happens later, when disagreements happen.
    6. Not all inter-racial, inter-caste, inter-religious marriages end up in divorce. But when you come from such different social backgrounds there is more of a reason to disagree. Unless and until(and I so do hope) your relationship is strong enough to put ALL the differences aside will you have a successfull marriage.
    7. Good luck in your complicated first crush!!!!!
    8. Keep me updated
     
  13. Ankur_Scorpio

    Ankur_Scorpio New Member

    @ VIVO - shhhhhhhhhhhh man!!!

    Anyways here's the reply...

    1. I like using numerical points - me too

    2. I think religion, caste, race all this becomes a problem because of the fact that marriage is NOT about just you and your better(or worse)-half in India....its about two families!!! - agreed, tht's the point i am trying to drive...families need to open up, people in general. 2 people can fall in love but families dont accept and tht' cos of the thinking..tht's centuries old....at least the new generation families should be more tolerant to it and new generation families are people who are educated...they shud understand this that people from diff religion are people first....then belong to some religion.

    3. Not everyone in your family(aunts uncles blah blah) are gonna accept it.....it is something you will face whether the girl/guy is from the SAME everything as you!!!! --- making everyone happy is not possible....someone or the other is always gonna have a pain in his/her butt.no matter if the marriage is..inter-religious or not...and more often than not...people dont care! at least not with today's fast moving societies...

    4. People's behaviours are molded not just by genes but also by their upbringning. Upbringing is not genetic either, its the social system that you are brought up in. Social system is determined by a variety of factors, including religion, race, caste etc.--- agreed, and tht upbriging is wht needs to change...the world is shriking...the more we move our of our cosy lands...and meet new people...live in different cities, the more r the odds of meeting people from different backgrounds...tht's wht we gotta teach..its the call of the new times...need revolutionary changes..in thinking and mindsets...

    5. We still believe that marriage is LIFE-LONG commitment. No one (even in the west) ever gets married knowing that it'll last....eh maybe three five years....everyone wants that commitment. Divorce happens later, when disagreements happen. Once more, agreed, but wht i am saying is when all the big issues of commitment come into play does the issue of religion really remaing that huge?

    6. Not all inter-racial, inter-caste, inter-religious marriages end up in divorce. But when you come from such different social backgrounds there is more of a reason to disagree. Unless and until(and I so do hope) your relationship is strong enough to put ALL the differences aside will you have a successfull marriage. I think any relationship has its ups and downs and if u can take the heat of the tougher situations, issue that someone goes to different place to worship would feel like a breeze..

    7. Good luck in your complicated first crush!!!!! Its over man....she wouldnt mind but her dad would kill her, and dad is a doctor!! Irony of the situation....someone, a doctor, who by law in under the oath of not discriminating between two religions (tht's another thing tis on a professional level and not spriritual level) but still... :cry1:
    Moreover her family is already struggling cos the brother is hell bent on marrying a person from other religion and her dad is fightin tooth and nail to make sure tht doesnt happen!!

    So tht's my whole point....WORLD IS SHRINKING...THE ODDS R INCREASING...THOSE WHO DONT AGREE BETTER PREPARE WELL, COS ONE DAY OR THE OTHER ITS GONNA GET TO YOU :p:
     
  14. guitarangela

    guitarangela gran'ma

    2. I think religion, caste, race all this becomes a problem because of the fact that marriage is NOT about just you and your better(or worse)-half in India....its about two families!!!-well, I wouldn’t completely agree with that…cuz when you had a gf, did u ask them that can I have one?…and when you have *** with her, is it in the knowledge of your parents?…or atleast is it ok with your religion to have premarital *** or to have a gf?….the family doesn’t matter when you do this kind of stuff…but when you actually want to have a strong relationship, why is it between the “families.”…
    3. Not everyone in your family(aunts uncles blah blah) are gonna accept it.....it is something you will face whether the girl/guy is from the SAME everything as you!!!!-oh come on, religion is not the only one that they are going to look…First, they look into how much he has in his bank account..i have heard a lot of times ppl saying, how much does he make? ..and there are aunts and uncles who would agree for intramarriage even though your parents might not agree…as long as its not their children who is getting married….eventhough they love u abundantly, it is like known that their children would come to them first before nieces and uncles…they can give some side comments, and that is it….
    4. People's behaviours are molded not just by genes but also by their upbringning. Upbringing is not genetic either, its the social system that you are brought up in. Social system is determined by a variety of factors, including religion, race, caste etc.-Well, before you blame the society, a large part of life is influenced by their families….If your parents were of different religions, you are less likely to resist intra-marriage .. First, you have the family influence, then only the society comes to place…Your family plays the basic role of your characteristic..
    5. We still believe that marriage is LIFE-LONG commitment. No one (even in the west) ever gets married knowing that it'll last....eh maybe three five years....everyone wants that commitment. Divorce happens later, when disagreements happen.We Believe that marriage is a Life-long commitment…Also, we believe in religion…So if we can violate marriage that is just not related to yourself, what is the issue in violating religion laws and rules that MAINLY depends on u…And is the commitment based on the religion or your wish to live with that special one?…Is it the reltigion that decides that you will have a life-long commitment or a short term marriage life?…
    6. Not all inter-racial, inter-caste, inter-religious marriages end up in divorce. But when you come from such different social backgrounds there is more of a reason to disagree. Unless and until(and I so do hope) your relationship is strong enough to put ALL the differences aside will you have a successfull marriage.- When you decide to get married, usually, you will look at the pros and cons…it is true that there are chances for you to disagree when you share a marriage with a person of a different backgrounds…..But why didn’t u see the chance of that coming when you were in love with her/him…and usually, its not ONLY the religion….It is in a human person, a tendency to prove you are right or dominant…So when you have a fight over silly thing, you wish to show you family high or your religion high over ur husband’s or wife’s, to prove that you are right..…It is just a reason they bring up as a support for u…

    I do agree with whatever you have said..i was just giving another point of views...:beer:
     
  15. vivo_b

    vivo_b The Brave

    I cudnt figure out how to change the colors....or rather I just dint bother with it....wud have made a very long post anyways
    Counterpoints to angela

    2. When you're dating, it IS between you and ur b/gf.....family only gets involved in the marriage stage!!!! Premarital $e>< doesnt play into a religious scenario.....it is purely a personal choice. If you make the choice of having $e>< before "marriage" - using the term loosely - I saw good for you, if not I say good for you too. We never ask permission to have $e><, marriage is much more than the permission to do it. In india it IS in fact a coming together of two families and that's why it is important that the families be from the same backgrounds - reduces future tensions.

    3. Completely besides the point and beyond the scope of our argument. We are only discussing religion here because that is the topic ankur has suggested, you are free to make posts about financial background's effects on marriages. The point I was trying to make was that you'll never satisfy everyone, but you can try!!!!

    4. Again you are completely wrong....I am right in blaming society, for one cannot simply throw them out. And society in the end is a buncha families, so unless and until you can change the minds of everyone in society (or atleast those close to you) you cant win.

    5. There are several factors going into the commitment. Some you can see some you cant, your family tries to forsee and the least risk scenario always seems with people like yourself.

    6. Like the dumass poets say - you dont look for love, you just fall in love - but screw them. We cant deal with love the way we deal with business - thats arranged marriage. The thing is that families (beign outside observerss) can, and normally they come from certain background into which religion plays a big role, therefore they want to ensure safety. The families are kinda purchasing an insurance policy for your marriage by looking at rreligion.
     
  16. guitarangela

    guitarangela gran'ma

    Counter counter points for u VIVO:)

    2. When you're dating, it IS between you and ur b/gf.....family only gets involved in the marriage stage!!!! Premarital $e>< doesnt play into a religious scenario.....it is purely a personal choice. If you make the choice of having $e>< before "marriage" - using the term loosely - I saw good for you, if not I say good for you too. We never ask permission to have $e><, marriage is much more than the permission to do it. In india it IS in fact a coming together of two families and that's why it is important that the families be from the same backgrounds - reduces future tensions.Well, i donno about other religions...In christianity, PREMARITAL S.EX is a sin!!!..so ur parents dont mind u having affairs before marriage, and they do only after marriage..hmmmm....before marraige, its a "personal" choice..after marriage, what is it?
    3. Completely besides the point and beyond the scope of our argument. We are only discussing religion here because that is the topic ankur has suggested, you are free to make posts about financial background's effects on marriages. The point I was trying to make was that you'll never satisfy everyone, but you can try!!!!
    well, i agree that there are families that are conservative.....but not all of them are....and why do u want to satusfy everyone..i really don't care if my uncle's neice's granfather's uncle is making a huge issue out of it..for me, its just my mom and my dad...and is a marriage to satisfy others?? or to urself...
    4. Again you are completely wrong....I am right in blaming society, for one cannot simply throw them out. And society in the end is a buncha families, so unless and until you can change the minds of everyone in society (or atleast those close to you) you cant win. ANd what makes a society? FAMILIES!!..so whatever that starts in the family spreads to the society......
    5. There are several factors going into the commitment. Some you can see some you cant, your family tries to forsee and the least risk scenario always seems with people like yourself.so are u saying that ur family knows more about the person that you fell in love with? (not in case of arranged marriages)hmm..interesting:think:....and howz religion going to be a factor that affects your commitment...do u commit yourself to the person after seeing that he/ she is from your religion only?
    6. Like the dumass poets say - you dont look for love, you just fall in love - but screw them. We cant deal with love the way we deal with business - thats arranged marriage. The thing is that families (beign outside observerss) can, and normally they come from certain background into which religion plays a big role, therefore they want to ensure safety. The families are kinda purchasing an insurance policy for your marriage by looking at rreligion..
    how come you are going to be secure if you are going to marry the person from the same religion????...Its not the religion that matters..its the person.....It does not make a person any better just cuz he is a muslim, hindu or christian...
     
  17. Ankur_Scorpio

    Ankur_Scorpio New Member

    atleast the thread looks colourful now! :)
     
  18. Sorry guys

    I didn't work for me and I am as liberal as they come.

    Personally I would say if you love each other, live together, and if it lasts more than five years (yes it takes that long to establish that differences don't matter to you) only then get married and only then have kids.

    I am afraid in my case, the straw that broke the camels back, was the upbringing of my son.
     
  19. the_wizard

    the_wizard Omega == God

    great...experience speaks.

    BTW does your son play the guitar too?
    and is he a chelsea fan as well ;)
     
  20. Ankur_Scorpio

    Ankur_Scorpio New Member

    I guess u have had the ultimate say in this matter!! Thanks for sharing, really appreciate it. We guys can all talk about it, but u are the one with the experience. U summed it up, that if such a relationship lasts 5 years at least only then one should go for it and i guess love would have to be extra strong given the kinda strain such relationship would have to endure in its lifeterm.
     

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