1. liquid, u are confused!! ..but dont worry.
A triad consists of 3 notes.
Minor applies to a triad whereas flat applies to a single note.
In Aminor we have the major 3rd being lowered a half step. The other 2 notes remain the same. Hence we are "flatting" only one of the 3 notes.
i hope that clears it up a little.

2. Tabber
Join Date
Jan 2004
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yea that does...thanks ..

so whats the difference between an Ab chord and an A minor....they arent the same....so whats the "official" explanation behind this...

3. A minor has the notes: A C E

But for Ab major:
The Ab scale is:
Ab Bb C Db Eb F Gb
Hence Ab major would be : Ab C Eb

4. Tabber
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ok that makes sense and all..

but now i have another question...( lol dont worry its less complex)..

why do u guys write Ab major....why not just Ab....i mean isnt it understood that it is a major chord?..

and is there such a thing as Ab minor?...and how would u form the scale for this.....ud form the Ab scale...then just take every major interval and make it into a minor by lowering it a half step?...sound good?

5. 1.yes , it is

2. Obviously there is a Ab minor. U are correct except that we will only lower the major 3rd to get the triad.
Ab : Ab C Eb
Ab(minor): Ab Cb Eb
Notice only the major 3rd C is lowered by a half-step to get Cb.
clear??

6. Newbie
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Jan 2005
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Major scale follows the relationship

Root W W H W W W H

where W = Whole step, H = Half step

So for Ab major scale (also written only as Ab with the major being implied), u'd have

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 (or 1)
W W H W W W H
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G Ab

U derive the Ab major chord by taking 1 3 and 5 of the major scale, in this case u get Ab C Eb, which is what has already been explained.

Musicians use major scales as starting point to denote and derive chords, so u derive the Ab minor chord by flatting the 3rd of the Ab major scale to get the Ab minor chord which would be Ab Cb Eb (read bandbaaja and dennis other threads for more details - esp. on why u call it a Cb and not a B etc.).

Now the Ab minor scale is a whole different animal !! Won't go too deep into minor scales but let me say a few things. There are 3 types of minor scales (already confused, yeah! that's why I won't go too deeply into this + I am no expert in minor scale theory anyway).
1. Natural minor - built on the 6th note of the corresponding major scale. That's relatively (pun intended !) easy to understand, the 6th note of the Ab major scale is "F" - voila, u can now build an F minor scale just by following the same sequence of notes as the Ab major scale. The "relative" of the relatively is highlighted bcos u say the F is the relative minor of Ab major.

So, u have

F minor scale (natural minor scale if u want to be precise), built on the relative major, would be

F G Ab Bb C Db Eb F

Note that the natural minor scale now has the relationship

"Minor Root" W H W W H W W (I think I saw ananth mention this in some thread - was it this same thread?).

So, where does all of this mumbo jumbo leave the Ab minor scale (and u must be thinking why the heck did this idiot jump into F minor scale when I was talking about Ab minor - well..., that digression is important to understand the Ab minor scale, which I'll get to right below).

So, to get to the Ab minor scale, u can use the relationship above for minro scales and derive it. But if u want to expand ur music theory and get to consistent understanding, the better approach (IMHO) is to find the the relative major of Ab minor - its simple, u jump 1 1/2 step from Ab and get to Cb (go back and re-read why its not B but Cb even though they are enharmonic) and voila again, Cb is the relative major of Ab minor, u can check this by writing down the Cb major scale and noting that Ab falls into the 6th degree of the Cb major scale.

SUMMARY
----------
Learn the major scale, use the 6th degree of the major scale and play the exact same notes as the major scale but starting with the 6th note (or degree) and u get the corresponding natural minor scale. What u'll note (no pun intended !) is
the natural minor scale doesn't belong to the same key or is not part of the major scale by the same name, in this example, Ab minor scale belongs to the Cb major scale or uses the key signature of Cb AND NOT Ab, in fact the F minor scale uses the same key signature as the Ab major scale

However, u still create the Ab minor chord from the Ab major scale by flatting the 3rd.

Briefly, I'll just mention the other 2 types of minor scales (enuff already on the natural minor, so this u can skip or get to some other time).
2. Harmonic
3. Melodic

This is a lot to digest, try to answer a simple question to see if u figured out all of this, what is the key signature of E minor i.e. which major scale is E minor related to?

And please all ya pros, correct me if I have said some nonsense above.

7. wow, excellent post.Liquid seems to have been vapourized.
Reps to u!

8. Thats a gud thread by denis. Must be useful for the begineers and well as Pros..

9. Newbie
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Tx dennis.

This is a bit confusing, so I'll probably give Liquid some time to ponder this over, cool down and maintain his "state" !! .

10. Tabber
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lol...it isnt "bash liquid day"...thats next week :P..

anyways....i understood most of it....i guess im gonna be even more toast as i have finalz this week...so i probably wont be able to re read this stuff over and over to memorize it...

thanks though...

11. Newbie
Join Date
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## understanding chords

Hi , I am a beginner and posting 1st time on this site. I can play songs i get chords as mentioned below

E|-10-10-13-12-10-10-12-10-8-3-----------------
B|------------------------------------------------
G|------------------------------------------------
D|------------------------------------------------
A|------------------------------------------------
E|------------------------------------------------

But I can't make out if chords are like

a a c b a a b a g d

I don't know how to map these 2 things. can some one pl help me in understanding this.
Thanks

12. Hey Dennis,
I know this interval theory but the problem is if you ask me what is the augmented 5th for F#, I wont know by heart. I have to do some calculation and counting and then only I am able to do it. Is there any good way to memorize them or easily remember them. I was always poor at memorizing things.

13. calculation..i too am poor at memorizing :(:(.
..at first it was seriously midboggiling..but now its a bit easier..kinda like math(i still suck though )

14. ## music is art

my humble advice is to not worry about memorizing the intervals. just having a decnet picture or idea of the scales and theory is more than enough. i have lost some of my innocence on the piano and would hate to lose it on the guitar. when you are playing around with a song or tune and not know but feel what the next note is. of course there's a scientific name for the interval, but the science can't make you feel that interval. i really respect theory and am going to take quite a bit soon. i am both scared and excited. music is an art, but can be studied in a scientific sort of way. but the Perfect note or Perfect chord or Perfect melody or harmony can never be reached by science, it's all feel and soul. mind is chained by science and perception and laws of illusion, it's only the unseen eye that's free. let it see an seek freedom. this is music

now in retrospect, i am not so sure because to think of it from the point of view of pytaghoras or something is unreal to have such physics and insight and science into something so beautiful. i am conflicted by these dualities and seeking the perfect balance, oh well.

i would love to see replies on the issue of music as an art, science, theory, feel, perception, and stuff like that. let's get some philosophy up in this

15. Hey really nice post man.

I need some theory these days!

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